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I think pilots need to become more realistic and stop considering themselves any special breed. |
I think, the same discussions surfaced when cvr/fdr became mandatory long ago....
skadi |
I remember a cockpit view available on the seat screen when flying as a passenger in the Gulf many years ago. I heard it was discontinued after passengers watched themselves head for the ground. That was in the 1980’s. |
Originally Posted by funfly
(Post 10399156)
I remember a cockpit view available on the seat screen when flying as a passenger in the Gulf many years ago. I heard it was discontinued after passengers watched themselves head for the ground. That was in the 1980’s. |
Originally Posted by CargoOne
(Post 10398997)
Cannot comment of firefighters but police patrol cars internal cam is recording all the time incl lunch or drink which they more often than not taking inside the car, same with bus and trains. And, let me bring it - those records are not deleted like CVR after the flight, it is archived and kept in full for extended period of time for the benefit of potential inquires and investigations. I think pilots need to become more realistic and stop considering themselves any special breed.
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Cameras live streaming from a cockpit together with live streaming CVR/DFDR will probably appear when the 'optional pilots' are automated out of their jobs. Regulatory issues are more difficult than the technical issues.
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I drive trains for a railroad in New York.
We just started putting camera's in all the cars starting last year. They record 24/7 whether you're sitting in a yard facility sleeping or operating down main track at 80mph. They've already begun using the camera's to write people up for the most asinine, egregious nonsense, even on people who aren't on duty! I used to believe the Railroad Unions (we have teamsters) were the most powerful unions in the World, but they haven't said a word. Why do I even pay union dues? I'm tempted to flight instruct up to my ATP and then apply for Ameriflight or something. The pay cut might be worth it, as long as the pilot unions never follow the railroad down this path. |
I can't see a problem if the camera feed goes ONLY to an ADR type black box, that is only accessed in the event of an accident. You don't hear many pilots moaning about the CVR, so what is the problem with a CVidR?
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FDR’s and CVR’s were originally developed to speak when the pilots were no longer alive to speak. I believe they are used for more than that these days... I think that’s what we refer to as “mission creep”. A little bit like internet metadata monitoring, which in my country was introduced to capture terrorists and paedophiles. Most recently it was reported that a local government was using it to capture and fine owners of unregistered pets. Out of interest, does anyone have any links to current regulations around the world where the CVR may be accessed when the pilots are still available to tell the story? When the offices of our CEO’s and politicians have CVR’s, maybe I’ll agree to this. |
Originally Posted by Derfred
(Post 10400075)
Out of interest, does anyone have any links to current regulations around the world where the CVR may be accessed when the pilots are still available to tell the story?
49 U.S. Code § 1114. Disclosure, availability, and use of information https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/1114 49 CFR § 831.11 - Parties to the investigation. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/831.11 49 CFR § 831.13(b)–Flow and dissemination of accident or incident information https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/831.13 49 U.S. Code § 1154. Discovery and use of cockpit and surface vehicle recordings and transcripts https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/1154 I have commented here in recent years about what I perceive to be a trend to harvest more of what would formerly be labeled 'non-pertinent conversation' in CVR transcripts. |
Originally Posted by Derfred
(Post 10400075)
FDR’s and CVR’s were originally developed to speak when the pilots were no longer alive to speak. I believe they are used for more than that these days... I think that’s what we refer to as “mission creep”. A little bit like internet metadata monitoring, which in my country was introduced to capture terrorists and paedophiles. Most recently it was reported that a local government was using it to capture and fine owners of unregistered pets. Out of interest, does anyone have any links to current regulations around the world where the CVR may be accessed when the pilots are still available to tell the story? When the offices of our CEO’s and politicians have CVR’s, maybe I’ll agree to this. |
It's impossible to reliably live stream an HD video stream via satellite from a platform that might be undergoing severely unusual attitudes. It needs to be stored locally, as close to the camera as possible, onto a sealed recorder. It's not that hard to do, nor is it hard to enforce that nobody opens the damn thing unless examining an incident or accident.
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With my railroad the company told the Union to tell us that the camera's would not be examined unless an accident occurred. We were told the company did not have access to the cameras and that they would have to go to a 3rd party to gain access to footage.
It took four months for the first "random download" to occur. A year in and they pull hundreds of hours of footage a week, writing people up for having their phone off and in their pocket instead of off and in their bag (per FRA regs) and they issuing warnings for people who are seen out the front window camera walking across yard tracks instead of using the crosswalk. I could only imagine the colorful conversations they listen to when we have a three hour swing, and are just bull****ting in the passenger cabin. I urge any ALPA rep on these boards to fight camera's with every fiber of your being. Do not believe your company when they claim altruism. |
Originally Posted by Derfred
(Post 10400075)
FDR’s and CVR’s were originally developed to speak when the pilots were no longer alive to speak. I believe they are used for more than that these days... I think that’s what we refer to as “mission creep”. |
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