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Virgin Atlantic strike
It is reported on the BBC that Virgin Atlantic pilots are to strike from Dec 22 to Christmas Day:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46487672 |
1700 views. Not one comment. Storm in a tea cup or are VA pilots sworn to secrecy under threat ?
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Gordomac,
It's because there's nothing to see. The PPU represent a third of the pilots. 72% turned out, 71% voted for IA. That's a grand total of 17% of the pilots who voted for IA - some of whom might yet go to work anyway. That's why Virgin have said there will be no disruption. The PPU have been holding industrial action for around 2 years now. No one has really noticed. They really got it wrong when they insisted on being the sole negotiating union, when two unions were present. No union has ever tried to oust the other union before, and it's totally against the principles of the union movement. Be this a lesson in how not to do things! |
Even though 70-ish% turned out, and 70-ish% voted strike, if the union want to achieve anything I would expect now 100% of members to get behind the action |
PPU claims of being the majority union are very much out of date from what I’m told. The ‘other one’ is now very much back in the driving seat with what looks like a decent company council. Wrong argument at the wrong time by the looks of it. |
Here come the pro balpa gorillas
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Every year I see another airline circumvent a stubborn union and startup a new AOC with contract pilots... that's WITH a trained pilot shortage!!
I'm sure we can ride out this madness brought on by PPU. |
Don't knock the principle of unions... they've done far more for aircrew T&C's than has having no union and / or no organised collective clout.
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This was all about union recognition and nothing to do with negotiations regarding benefits. The ASOS which has been going for 2 years brought nothing, so they've now pressed the big red button far too early. All it has brought is bad press... for nothing as I'm fairly certain all the flights will be covered by non PPU members on standby and Management. I'm not a staunch BALPA table thumper, just sick of the whole self inflicted mess.
Perhaps the PPU just wanted some unpaid Christmas holiday...now where can I get a good Brexit debate... |
The "other one" was never really out of the driving seat, though was it?
It has remained the recognised union throughout, regardless of the membership numbers of either union; meanwhile the PPU has always been unable to apply to the Central Arbitration Committee for Statutory Recognition, due to the fact that there is already a collective agreement in force. Let's see what happens over the next few days. |
" I'm fairly certain all the flights will be covered by non PPU members"
You're dead right, we can see from the high court transcripts in which the judge ruled in Virgin's favour on a technicality, Virgin wet leased aircraft at £250k per day in order to break any strike. That would have been illegal. If BALPA members aren't concerned about how that precedent would emasculate them in the future then they should be. |
Originally Posted by farefield
(Post 10352508)
" I'm fairly certain all the flights will be covered by non PPU members"
You're dead right, we can see from the high court transcripts in which the judge ruled in Virgin's favour on a technicality, Virgin wet leased aircraft at £250k per day in order to break any strike. That would have been illegal. If BALPA members aren't concerned about how that precedent would emasculate them in the future then they should be. If BALPA do Industrial Action it’s planning is precise and the stoppage complete. As a member, I rest easily in that knowledge. Leave no stone unturned |
Well, do you know what the technicality was?
The judge agreed with Virgin that the union should not only have given the numbers entitled to be balloted but also the breakdown of skippers and first officers. I don't suppose even BALPA would have seen that one coming. |
BALPA spend £1 million a year on the best lawyers in the country. Thomas Cook tried every trick in the book to injunct the will of its Pilots - all to no avail BALPA is a grass roots lead organisation and has made big strides in professional engagement with business in recent years. It’s now the largest voluntary Member Association of Pilots in the world. Grab an ore and start paddling |
Originally Posted by farefield
(Post 10352704)
Well, do you know what the technicality was?
The judge agreed with Virgin that the union should not only have given the numbers entitled to be balloted but also the breakdown of skippers and first officers. I don't suppose even BALPA would have seen that one coming. |
Dogma..... good name for you.
"Grab an ore and start paddling" , I'll grab that piece of rock! I amazed that you're so hung up on being clever that you can't see the insidiousness of the threat of wet leasing to counter any strike action even DOGMA members might make in the future! (sorry, I mean BALPA members) |
Originally Posted by farefield
(Post 10353153)
Dogma..... good name for you.
"Grab an ore and start paddling" , I'll grab that piece of rock! I amazed that you're so hung up on being clever that you can't see the insidiousness of the threat of wet leasing to counter any strike action even DOGMA members might make in the future! (sorry, I mean BALPA members) |
From the Gov.uk website;
"Agency staffYou can’t hire agency staff to provide temporary work cover during a strike." |
Originally Posted by farefield
(Post 10353153)
Dogma..... good name for you.
"Grab an ore and start paddling" , I'll grab that piece of rock! I amazed that you're so hung up on being clever that you can't see the insidiousness of the threat of wet leasing to counter any strike action even DOGMA members might make in the future! (sorry, I mean BALPA members) you seem to to have an issue with being challenged. Wet leasing is obviously a known risk, the availability of that lift is always precarious beyond about three aircraft. Since when has a subbing to break a strike been new? PS - if possible please stick to debating the facts and not get personal |
Originally Posted by farefield
(Post 10353352)
From the Gov.uk website;
"Agency staffYou can’t hire agency staff to provide temporary work cover during a strike." |
It has been my experience in the past that forcing management into having to wet lease has brought matters to an earlier conclusion since it costs them a small fortune on top of their usual outgoings.
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Dogma, I apologise. However, you chose your name, but you are right, it's not a good name for you.
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Being 30 + years in the aviation
i got trained by good staff. Danair...BOAC.. BMI..,. Then Flylo era comes in. Get paid same 20 years later Yes we do same Job We get them home. It does hurt to give sub Cass service. But put 3 kids through University on a wage just before the the change.... Lucky Risk your life.. get slaged off for givg a customer the wrong olive in their drink. Oh they strike.... |
If Dogma knew the difference between oar and ore then I may be interested in what they say. |
Originally Posted by farefield
(Post 10353352)
From the Gov.uk website;"Agency staff
You can’t hire agency staff to provide temporary work cover during a strike." I wonder what that was doing at Heathrow (picture of Qatar A320 at Heathrow in case it gets removed) Edit... picture change to save the clever folk pointing out the previous one was the Amiri Flight. |
Bit of light background reading here about BA and that wetlease. From Para 36 ... ” 36. BALPA also raise two other points: circumvention of the Employment Agencies Regulations 2003 and Article 11 of the Convention on Human Rights (the right of assembly). The CAA does not think that these points are of relevance to the application for approval of the proposed operation submitted by BA. In the case of the 2003 Regulations, the prohibition in those Regulations is on an employment agency, not on an employer or another employer, such as Qatar Airlines. The point in relation to Article 11 is not relevant since the approval, if granted, would not limit or restrict the right of industrial action by the mixed fleet cabin crew.” So in that case it appears the CAA were OK with approving a wetlease because doing side steps any regs regarding agencies and strike breaking, and using a wetlease doesn’t prevent the workforce from indulging in IA...so that’s alright then...:* |
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