Originally Posted by newaviator
(Post 10292193)
In relation to the Embraer , why not park it on a remote stand ( no air bridge needed) and bus the pax to and from it ? The air bridge equipment must have a fire exit/steps that could be used in an emergency anyway to relocate passengers/staff onto the apron.
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Originally Posted by RVF750
(Post 10292177)
Now that really doesn't make much sense. A330/340 are more or less the same aircraft, and if Airbus designed a different towbar attachment point on them I'd be very surprised...
A towbar incorporates a shear pin designed to ensure that should anything go wrong it will, at worst, be the towbar that gets damaged and not the aircraft's landing gear. Different variants of the same aircraft type may well require towbars with the same dimensions and physical characteristics, but differently rated shear pins to take account of different TOW ranges. |
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10292259)
On the contrary, it makes perfect sense.
A towbar incorporates a shear pin designed to ensure that should anything go wrong it will, at worst, be the towbar that gets damaged and not the aircraft's landing gear. Different variants of the same aircraft type may well require towbars with the same dimensions and physical characteristics, but differently rated shear pins to take account of different TOW ranges. |
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10292259)
A towbar incorporates a shear pin designed to ensure that should anything go wrong it will, at worst, be the towbar that gets damaged and not the aircraft's landing gear.
If the towbar comes off the plane you need to get back on the brakes lest you roll into the tug or something else. We had the towbar come loose in Cairo on a slope, by the time we realized what had happened and put on the binders we were inches from a piece of ground equipment. Many planes now have cameras to see the nosewheel area during pushback but on the legacy aircraft you need to really be careful when coordinating the brakes and taxi during the pushback procedure. I've found some of my ground colleagues in the U.S. to be very casual about standard voice calls over the interphone during the push and disconnect. Gotta sound cool I guess... For the non-towbar aircraft positioning discussion, does anybody know where this widely published Caravelle picture was taken? India or Thailand perhaps? https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5856abef88.png |
Originally Posted by A Squared
(Post 10292206)
Well, no doubt injuries from a slide evacuation are less likely on an E-175 than say, the top deck of a A380, but the probability is non-zero. I was just reading about an MD-80 evacuation with injuries requiring hospitalization. At least one broken bone, IIRC. I don't think the height of an MD-80's deck above the ground is substantially higher than an E-175's.
See: http://www.zodiac-equipment.cz/web/admin/fckeditor/userfiles/image/jm/STAIRS-DOOR-SILL-HEIGHTS.pdf |
Originally Posted by A Squared
(Post 10292274)
To be candid, I also was scratching my head about how a A340-500 towbar woudn't work on an A340-600. What you say makes sense.
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
(Post 10292392)
And if the towbar pin doesn't shear, there is something in the nosegear that will, at least I've had it happen on a Boeing that was forced past the nosewheel steering limit. Not sure what maintenance has to do to fix it but for us it was an aircraft swap on an outbound pushback.
If the towbar comes off the plane you need to get back on the brakes lest you roll into the tug or something else. We had the towbar come loose in Cairo on a slope, by the time we realized what had happened and put on the binders we were inches from a piece of ground equipment. Many planes now have cameras to see the nosewheel area during pushback but on the legacy aircraft you need to really be careful when coordinating the brakes and taxi during the pushback procedure. I've found some of my ground colleagues in the U.S. to be very casual about standard voice calls over the interphone during the push and disconnect. Gotta sound cool I guess... For the non-towbar aircraft positioning discussion, does anybody know where this widely published Caravelle picture was taken? India or Thailand perhaps? https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5856abef88.png |
Perhaps they should have taken the train. The Chattanooga choo choo?
I'll get my coat. |
Originally Posted by Dan Winterland
(Post 10295167)
Perhaps they should have taken the train. The Chattanooga choo choo?
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Originally Posted by A Squared
(Post 10291964)
Looks like just a hard right turn with forward thrust to me too.
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"The main problem is to control some super soft force application at the right spots (senior engineer advice needed) and to have wingwalkers plus somebody in the cockpit listening and ready to brake and stear as things can get very expensive in a second. Plus some aircraft wheel chocks and somebody ready to position them. Once it gets moving it is hard to stop."
Howzabout using the appliance of science and avoiding the use of sensitive body parts? Try getting the group of strong men to push the tops of the tyres thereby getting the maximum mechanical advantage and avoiding the need to consult engineers regarding delicate bits of 'frame which should not be pushed? The tyres have to cope with far worse than a few hoary hands pushing the top surface and it is surprisingly easy to get the beast rolling. For the unbelievers, try pushing your car by the bodywork only, on a piece of level ground, preferably handbrake off and out of gear and note effort versus progress. Then repeat using the top of any tyre and compare. Obviously before you try this with your car, you must perform a full risk assessment and check ElfinSafety requirements and post lookouts etc, but the principle works just as well with any wheeled vehicle. For those of us who have worked for small charter outfits with minimal engineering & ground handling support it was frequently necessary to improvise, safely, to get the crew, the craft and the passengers to destination. Note the priorities in the listing!! Of course now with regulations and regulators who've never sniffed Avgas nor kerosene one has to be VERY careful in getting the task safely accomplished in the absence of a piece of paper/laptop which says you may or may not exercise initiative and common sense. Aaaah, common sense and airmanship!! Don't hear much about them these days? And don't get me started on RAW flying.................... |
Originally Posted by BARKINGMAD
(Post 10297015)
"The main problem is to control some super soft force application at the right spots (senior engineer advice needed) and to have wingwalkers plus somebody in the cockpit listening and ready to brake and stear as things can get very expensive in a second. Plus some aircraft wheel chocks and somebody ready to position them. Once it gets moving it is hard to stop."
Howzabout using the appliance of science and avoiding the use of sensitive body parts? Try getting the group of strong men to push the tops of the tyres thereby getting the maximum mechanical advantage and avoiding the need to consult engineers regarding delicate bits of 'frame which should not be pushed? The tyres have to cope with far worse than a few hoary hands pushing the top surface and it is surprisingly easy to get the beast rolling. For the unbelievers, try pushing your car by the bodywork only, on a piece of level ground, preferably handbrake off and out of gear and note effort versus progress. Then repeat using the top of any tyre and compare. Obviously before you try this with your car, you must perform a full risk assessment and check ElfinSafety requirements and post lookouts etc, but the principle works just as well with any wheeled vehicle. For those of us who have worked for small charter outfits with minimal engineering & ground handling support it was frequently necessary to improvise, safely, to get the crew, the craft and the passengers to destination. Note the priorities in the listing!! Of course now with regulations and regulators who've never sniffed Avgas nor kerosene one has to be VERY careful in getting the task safely accomplished in the absence of a piece of paper/laptop which says you may or may not exercise initiative and common sense. Aaaah, common sense and airmanship!! Don't hear much about them these days? And don't get me started on RAW flying.................... |
If figured that by now we'd all agree that what-about-this or what-about-that ad hoc solution that opens up more non-immedely-apparent problems that are worse than the original one to be solved, are not the way to go. I was wrong.
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Originally Posted by Vessbot
(Post 10298020)
If figured that by now we'd all agree that what-about-this or what-about-that ad hoc solution that opens up more non-immedely-apparent problems that are worse than the original one to be solved, are not the way to go. I was wrong.
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Oh dear, further proof (if needed) that common sense, airmanship and ingenuity are not as common as they used to be.
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Common sense, airmanship and ingenuity (resourcefulness) is trumped by the ominous threat of litigation. Every time.
By the way, "common sense" (intuition) is over-rated, as all too often an intuitive response proves to be wrong. i.e. In a skid on an icy roundabout? Hit the brakes! Or perhaps you are in an aerodynamic stall-spin? Pull up! Common sense, right? Not right. |
Originally Posted by evansb
(Post 10298459)
Common sense, airmanship and ingenuity (resourcefulness) is trumped by the ominous threat of litigation. Every time.
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Originally Posted by A Squared
(Post 10290836)
Seriously though, even if you disregarded legality and engine health, would it be possible to reverse taxi on an E-175? I would assume that reversers, if even installed would be cascade reverses, and I have heard it said that they wouldn't generate enough actual reverse thrust to move the airplane backward.
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Originally Posted by Sailvi767
(Post 10292153)
Probably not a issue on a E175. Larger aircraft yes.
1. Carry-on luggage which cannot go down the slides. How many passengers would be willing to leave their carry-ons behind in a non emergency? 2. The aircraft is grounded until they obtain and install new slides. If they don't have a towbar for this aircraft at this location, the chances that they'd have spare slides for this aircraft are essentially nil. |
Modern times for you. And it is getting worse by the minute.
Pilots unable to fly without autopilot. Planes impossible to move without towbar. What ever happened to knowing your job? Ever heard of pulley's? Give me one ( yes as in 1) brick, some pulleys and rope, and I"ll move whatever you want me to move. |
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