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-   -   Air Canada A321 landed despite go-around order (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/612827-air-canada-a321-landed-despite-go-around-order.html)

Longtimer 30th Aug 2018 19:46

Air Canada A321 landed despite go-around order
 
Air Canada A321 landed despite go-around order
  • 30 August, 2018
  • SOURCE: Flight Dashboard
  • BY: David Kaminski-Morrow
Canadian investigators have disclosed that an Air Canada Airbus A321 proceeded to land at Toronto despite being instructed to execute a go-around.

The aircraft had been operating flight AC150 from Calgary on 18 August, states the Transportation Safety Board of Canada.

It had been approaching runway 06L, on short final, when air traffic control ordered it to conduct a go-around owing to a preceding aircraft not having vacated the runway.

“The go-around transmission was not acknowledged by the flight crew of [the A321] and the aircraft proceeded with the landing,” says the safety board.

It landed and exited the runway without further incident, with no injuries among the 196 occupants.

At the time of the incident, given as 21:50, the approach would have been conducted in darkness

Airbubba 30th Aug 2018 19:48

Let me guess, the CVR tape was not available. ;)

Skyjob 30th Aug 2018 21:06

Crossed transmittion?

jack11111 30th Aug 2018 21:39

I believe Air Canada also did this at SFO last year, yes?

Edit:
Yes: October 2017.

Go-around issued because traffic had not cleared runway.

DaveReidUK 30th Aug 2018 21:44


Originally Posted by Longtimer (Post 10237606)
Air Canada A321 landed despite go-around order
  • 30 August, 2018
  • SOURCE: Flight Dashboard
  • BY: David Kaminski-Morrow
Canadian investigators have disclosed that an Air Canada Airbus A321 proceeded to land at Toronto despite being instructed to execute a go-around.

The aircraft had been operating flight AC150 from Calgary on 18 August, states the Transportation Safety Board of Canada.

It had been approaching runway 06L, on short final, when air traffic control ordered it to conduct a go-around owing to a preceding aircraft not having vacated the runway.

“The go-around transmission was not acknowledged by the flight crew of [the A321] and the aircraft proceeded with the landing,” says the safety board.

It landed and exited the runway without further incident, with no injuries among the 196 occupants.

At the time of the incident, given as 21:50, the approach would have been conducted in darkness

Confusingly, the TSB reports the incident as occurring at 21:50 UTC (17:50 local time), though that is presumably wrong as AC150's STA is 21:56 LT.

RobertS975 31st Aug 2018 01:36


Originally Posted by jack11111 (Post 10237685)
I believe Air Canada also did this at SFO last year, yes?

Edit:
Yes: October 2017.

Go-around issued because traffic had not cleared runway.

I the SFO incident was a landing AC jet lining up to land on the parallel taxiway and did a GA narrowly missing some of the aircraft lined up on the taxiway for the runway.

jack11111 31st Aug 2018 02:02

Quote:
"I the SFO incident was a landing AC jet lining up to land on the parallel taxiway and did a GA narrowly missing some of the aircraft lined up on the taxiway for the runway."

Yes, that also happened.

Airbubba 31st Aug 2018 03:56

Here's Air Canada 781 landing at SFO on October 22, 2017 after the tower repeatedly called a go around:



Air Canada, Oct. 22, 2017

Air Canada flight 781 was cleared to land on Runway 28R about six miles from the airport, which the crew acknowledged, but then radio contact ended with the tower. The air traffic controller, worried another plane had not cleared that runway, ordered the Air Canada plane to abort its landing six times with no response from the flight crew. The tower went as far as shining a light into the cockpit of the approaching plane in an unsuccessful attempt to get the flight crew’s attention.

The other plane had cleared the runway by the time the Air Canada jet touched down and landed safely. The FAA concluded after speaking to the flight crew and probing other data that the “crew inadvertently switched from the SFO tower frequency to the SFO ground frequency after receiving their landing clearance.”

“The FAA deemed this event to be an isolated occurrence and not reflective of any systematic deficiencies at Air Canada,” according to a FAA spokesman.

Aimer said pilots often pre-set their radio channels, knowing that once they land they will switch to the ground frequency to get instructions on where to taxi, but this was too soon.

“The pilot should be wondering, ‘How come we don’t hear the tower any more? Why is there complete silence? Why are we hearing ground traffic?’ ” Aimer said. “I can’t understand how experienced pilots didn’t catch that. We’ve all done stupid things, but that’s why you have two people in the cockpit.”

The incident prompted the FAA’s Flight Standards Service executive director to meet with his Canadian equivalent, according to the FAA, which led to an immediate safety review of the air carrier’s entire operations, including increased pilot training and a closer look at the airline’s arrivals and departures at SFO.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/...nvestigations/

DaveReidUK 31st Aug 2018 07:19


Originally Posted by jack11111 (Post 10237819)
Quote:
"I the SFO incident was a landing AC jet lining up to land on the parallel taxiway and did a GA narrowly missing some of the aircraft lined up on the taxiway for the runway."

Yes, that also happened.

And was extensively discussed in these columns at the time: PPRuNe: Air Canada non go-around at SFO

ATC Watcher 31st Aug 2018 08:34


The go-around transmission was not acknowledged by the flight crew ” says the safety board.
which suggest , like the preceding incident in SFO it was a technical issue (e.g. crossed TX, inadvertent chg of FRQ or simply tuned the volume down by error, etc..)..
Good that is is investigated, no so good that such things are thrown up in public before the incident is investigated and explained.

highflyer40 31st Aug 2018 11:03

I think the title should be amended to “Air Canada A321 landed despite go-around REQUEST”. ATC can’t order you to do anything once airbourne . They can request and you better have a very good reason to refuse, but refuse you can.

SquintyMagoo 31st Aug 2018 12:47

I have listened to the audio at LiveATC and I don't hear the go around "request." Could that be because they are recording two frequencies?

Can't Hover 31st Aug 2018 13:22

Interesting incident, fortunately without any injuries. I must wonder if where the problem lies; with the crew or with the system? In Europe and elsewhere a landing clearance is only given when the preceding aircraft has vacated the runway and the runway is ready to accept the next landing aircraft. The policy of giving the landing clearance concurrently to multiple aircraft clearly invites this kind of incident, be it due to stepped on transmissions, radio failure, or, as in this case operator error. Implementing a safer system seems sensible!

Skyjob 31st Aug 2018 14:06


Originally Posted by Can't Hover (Post 10238143)
Interesting incident, fortunately without any injuries. I must wonder if where the problem lies; with the crew or with the system? In Europe and elsewhere a landing clearance is only given when the preceding aircraft has vacated the runway and the runway is ready to accept the next landing aircraft. The policy of giving the landing clearance concurrently to multiple aircraft clearly invites this kind of incident, be it due to stepped on transmissions, radio failure, or, as in this case operator error. Implementing a safer system seems sensible!

LAND AFTER clearances are still given in EU, fortunately, as sometimes it makes the difference between a mandatory missed approach due preceding (rival) aircraft slowly vacating at end of a 3km runway

gwillie 31st Aug 2018 15:45

.
Longtimer -

It seems that your source neglected to include.......the punch line:

Canada's TSB rated the occurrence an incident reportable involving the risk of a collision, however, did not open an investigation.

Incident: Canada A321 at Toronto on Aug 18th 2018, continued landing despite go around instruction
That is the unforgivable piece.
.

EGPFlyer 31st Aug 2018 15:47


Originally Posted by Can't Hover (Post 10238143)
Interesting incident, fortunately without any injuries. I must wonder if where the problem lies; with the crew or with the system? In Europe and elsewhere a landing clearance is only given when the preceding aircraft has vacated the runway and the runway is ready to accept the next landing aircraft. The policy of giving the landing clearance concurrently to multiple aircraft clearly invites this kind of incident, be it due to stepped on transmissions, radio failure, or, as in this case operator error. Implementing a safer system seems sensible!

Not so. CDG give landing clearances as soon as you check in with them, despite being possibly number 2 or 3 on approach. I believe it’s only the case if using separate runways for landing and takeoff

DaveReidUK 31st Aug 2018 17:24


Originally Posted by gwillie (Post 10238245)
Longtimer -

It seems that your source neglected to include.......the punch line:

Canada's TSB rated the occurrence an incident reportable involving the risk of a collision, however, did not open an investigation.

Incident: Canada A321 at Toronto on Aug 18th 2018, continued landing despite go around instruction

That is the unforgivable piece.

There are around 20 ongoing investigations listed on the TSB website in respect of aviation accidents/incidents occurring in 2018, with the most recent being an event on 1st August.

So the fact that the 18th August event isn't (yet?) listed doesn't necessarily mean there won't be an investigation, notwithstanding Avherald's jumping to conclusions.

The Ancient Geek 31st Aug 2018 17:30

It can get very tight at places like LHR with a stream of landing aircraft at 90 second intervals.
It only takes one to miss the intended exit to mess things up, if the following aircraft has to go around it has to be squeezed back into the stream somehow causing knockon delays. Sometimes "please expedite" is not enough to clear the runway.

Herod 31st Aug 2018 18:23

Was it dark at the time? There seems to be some confusion. In Europe (I know, different continent), "land after" could not be given at night; only during the day. Apologies if this has been changed; retirement was a long time ago.

Rabski 31st Aug 2018 18:48

Land after, etc. is not the issue. What is, is the possibility of someone switching comms to ground frequency while still on approach. Maybe I've lost the plot over the years, but that takes some effort to mess up. Methinks someone was in a bit of a hurry.


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