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-   -   4th Aug 2018 Junkers JU52 crashed in Switzerland (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/611836-4th-aug-2018-junkers-ju52-crashed-switzerland.html)

skadi 4th Aug 2018 18:14

4th Aug 2018 Junkers JU52 crashed in Switzerland
 
A historic Junkers JU52 crashed today in the Swiss Alps.

JU 52

skadi

BluSdUp 4th Aug 2018 18:26

It is great to have these old birds flying instead of hanging in a museum collecting dust.
Sad to see one go.
I admire the dedicated enthusiasts that visit air shows with them.
RIP

Chris Scott 4th Aug 2018 18:27

Interesting that the wreckage as pictured is on an area of flat, relatively horizontal ground - rather than on an adjacent mountain slope. Could it be a forced-landing attempt?

Machinbird 4th Aug 2018 18:57


Originally Posted by Chris
Could it be a forced-landing attempt?

I don't think so. This was a relatively high energy impact that caused the fuselage to fail under linear compression in several locations.
More likely something like stall-spin, pilot incapacity, control problems, or structural failure.
Not a pretty picture at all.
RIP

BEA 71 4th Aug 2018 20:43

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...135fab7372.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...353836448d.jpg

This is very sad. Have seen the bird quite frequently, when heading for the Tegernsee area from Oberschleissheim airfield
or coming back. They were usually flying along the A 99 Highway. My sincere condolences to all affected.

Airbubba 4th Aug 2018 20:58


Originally Posted by BEA 71 (Post 10214669)
This is very sad. Have seen the bird quite frequently, when heading for the Tegernsee area from Oberschleissheim airfield
or coming back. They were usually flying along the A 99 Highway. My sincere condolences to all affected.

Sad indeed but I believe your photos are of the sister Ju52 HB-HOP, not the accident aircraft.

1sky 4th Aug 2018 21:55

Apparently 20 dead incl. three crew.

krohmie 4th Aug 2018 22:07

New cable in the vicinity:
From Avherald

Just came across the following NOTAM with a warning about a cable in that area. Might it be possible that they fly so low?

B0866/18: Obstacle erected
Q) LSAS/QOBCE/V/M/E/000/074/4653N00914E005 ROPEWAY CABLE 1.7KM SSE SEGNASP. MARKED, LGTD, LEN 699M, 465238N0091407E, 100.0M / 328.1FT AGL, 2251.0M / 7385.0FT AMSL.

FROM: 03 Aug 2018 05:51 GMT (07:51 CEST) TO: 07 Sep 2018 23:59 GMT (08 Sep 01:59 CEST)

Airbubba 4th Aug 2018 22:22

As always, gotta love the crypto exercise trying to read a NOTAM in 1930's teleprinter format. :ugh:

However, if my decoder ring is correct, the location is only two miles from the Piz Segnas crash site :eek::

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...630c5b1b40.jpg

AN2 Driver 4th Aug 2018 22:28


Originally Posted by Airbubba (Post 10214747)
However, if my decoder ring is correct, the location is only two miles from the Piz Segnas crash site :eek::

Yes and while this does not make it a smoking gun just yet, it's the first piece of information which has popped up which makes me wonder if it has anything to do with this. Those pilots REALLY know that area, there is not much which would surprise them to the extent that they might loose the airplane. And they are VERY experienced and proficient. However, a cable at a position where they did not expect it, yea, that would do it.

BEA 71 4th Aug 2018 22:59


Originally Posted by Airbubba (Post 10214684)
Sad indeed but I believe your photos are of the sister Ju52 HB-HOP, not the accident aircraft.

I was aware of this, Airbubba, there is some conflicting Information regarding the registration. This is HB-HOP, seen on 7th and 8th July.

glad rag 5th Aug 2018 01:04

"

Originally Posted by AN2 Driver (Post 10214751)
Yes and while this does not make it a smoking gun just yet, it's the first piece of information which has popped up which makes me wonder if it has anything to do with this. Those pilots REALLY know that area, there is not much which would surprise them to the extent that they might loose the airplane. And they are VERY experienced and proficient. However, a cable at a position where they did not expect it, yea, that would do it.

Cable
By Peter on Saturday, Aug 4th 2018 22:10Z


According to the Notam the cable is at 2251mASML and the crash site accoring to the police statement is at 2540mASML.

Assuming these facts are correct, it seems unlikly that the cable is related to the accident. After impacting a cable the aircraft would not climb another 290m."


Ref.. Crash: Ju-Air JU52 at Piz Segnas on Aug 4th 2018, impacted terrain

RIP. Condolences to all involved or affected.

RenegadeMan 5th Aug 2018 05:43

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...e8fd4ae1ff.jpg

OvertHawk 5th Aug 2018 08:09


Originally Posted by Onceapilot (Post 10214949)
Very sad event, and condolences to all involved.
The recent presence of a cable in the area does concern. I can imagine that it might be involved in the accident, despite the reported differences in elevation. However, I am sure this accident will be fully investigated and the facts revealed. RIP

OAP

There is a comment after the AvHerald article (In the OP) that purports to be from one of the team working on the cable in question stating that they heard the crash distant from their location and that their cable was not involved.

Quote " As one of the installers of the cable mentioned in this report i can ensure you, that the incident is unrelated. We watched the plane fly by high above us and heard the crash loud and clear. The cable was not installed at the time of the incident" End quote.

Ok it's only a post on a forum but it's worth considering - Why lie? If their cable was involved then the evidence will demonstrate it.

A very sad event indeed.

OH

EDLB 5th Aug 2018 08:49

Important for the other Vintage birds will be the reason for this accident. Fortunately the fuselage did not burn down complete, so there will hopefully be video coverage from inside left. Most times those mountain crashes are in IMC or night conditions but this one was in VMC and the bird could have done a emergency landing on the slope with minor damage if there where no additional holes in the cheese.

dadai 5th Aug 2018 09:13

They may have been trying to get a look through the famous Martinsloch rock window. The flight was a special excursion from Zurich to Locarno with an overnight stop and meal there. They were on their way back. It looks like it was one of the highlights of the excursion programme for the company for this year from the details on their website. A tragic event.

atakacs 5th Aug 2018 09:15


Originally Posted by EDLB (Post 10215005)
Important for the other Vintage birds will be the reason for this accident. Fortunately the fuselage did not burn down complete, so there will hopefully be video coverage from inside left. Most times those mountain crashes are in IMC or night conditions but this one was in VMC and the bird could have done a emergency landing on the slope with minor damage if there where no additional holes in the cheese.

Agreed - Obviously too early to have all the facts but this one is a bit baffling: the terrain they end up on was indeed favourable to an emergency landing, and with this type of aircraft it would be quite feasible. Conditions were perfect and there is no indication of major failure,
There will be a press conference this afternoon with hopefully more information but the death tool seem to be 20.
Very sad.

Toryu 5th Aug 2018 09:36

The picture we're seeing on avherald has been shot with a telelens and only shows a narrow section of the surroundings. I'd say it's shot about 20 degrees downslope and thus gives the illusion of relatively flat terrain.

The german Wiki-article shows this picture of the crash-area landscape:
h ttps://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absturz_einer_Junkers_Ju_52_2018#/media/File:MartinslochBoden_040.jpg
The crash-site would be between left of the two distinctive boulders in the center/ center-left of the picture.

They would have been flying upslope (to the right) this valley, probably trying to get over the pass:
h ttps://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segnaspass#/media/File:Unt._Segnasboden_in_richtung_Ofen,_Tschingelh%C3%B6rner ,_Segnaspass.jpg

Note: Since I can't post direct URLs now, you'll have to go the hard way, copy the links into your browser and edit-out the space between "h" and the rest of the link.

Can anybody confirm (or deny) this routing?

Raffles S.A. 5th Aug 2018 09:55

From the picture on Avherald, the plane looks like it crashed inverted.

skadi 5th Aug 2018 11:05

An eyewhitness at the nearby Segnas-Hut saw the JU approaching from the south, making a 180 turn and fell straight down...

skadi


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