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CAF Dakota crash, Burnet, TX 21-7-18
Douglas C-47B N47HL of the Commemorative Air Force crashed on take-off from Burnet, TX today. Thankfully, all thirteen on board survived. Aircraft destroyed by fire.
https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/dps...turday-morning |
Great that there are no fatalities. Fortunately, C47s are still far from rare - unlike CV-340s...
The a/c seems to swing early in the take-off run (not unusual!) but, at a cursory viewing, it's hard to be sure if that was due to any mechanical problem. Am a bit surprised that the tail is lifted only a small amount, and then lowered again almost immediately as the take-off continues. |
I did a bit of a double take when I saw the title - the Flying Heritage DC-3/C-47 was flying around Paine Field yesterday accompanied by a single engine fighter (I think it was a P-47 but I didn't get a good enough look to be sure) (they have an event going on this weekend).
Shame to lose the CAF C-47 but at least everyone got off - prays to the person who was burned. |
Dear oh dear. It's been a bad week for old aircraft: 2x C47, CV340 and a Venom...
https://aviation-safety.net |
.....and a C-46 too!
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Originally Posted by Chris Scott
(Post 10202582)
The a/c seems to swing early in the take-off run (not unusual!) but, at a cursory viewing, it's hard to be sure if that was due to any mechanical problem. Am a bit surprised that the tail is lifted only a small amount, and then lowered again almost immediately as the take-off continues.
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Hoiked off the ground stalled because the tail wasn't high enough? The right wing dropped first, then the left, then the left tip struck the ground.
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Originally Posted by Iron Duck
(Post 10202636)
Hoiked off the ground stalled because the tail wasn't high enough? The right wing dropped first, then the left, then the left tip struck the ground.
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Originally Posted by Chris Scott
(Post 10202582)
Am a bit surprised that the tail is lifted only a small amount, and then lowered again almost immediately as the take-off continues.
Saw DC3's take off many many dozens of times, but memory is fading. Looking at some YT DC3 clips, seems to confirm that memory is not yet that bad after all. |
Originally Posted by Chris Scott
(Post 10202649)
Not high enough is an understatement. Frankly, the left main-wheel left the ground before the tail-wheel. However, the C47 has fairly benign stalling characteristics, IIRC, so it remains to be understood why lateral control was lost.
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I had trouble finding a video. In case it might help anyone else, here is a link to a youtube one I found. As motions closely match descriptions by people posting here earlier, it may well be the exact video they reviewed.
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DIBO, your description is correct.
Eric, it's 50 years since I last did or saw stalls on DC-3s (well, C47s actually). They were always planned and with wings level. So I bow to your superior knowledge, but no doubt there are other possibilities, including power asymmetry.. |
Watch the video and look for elevator and rudder motions. Also the photo of the aircraft after the fire is out. Elevator may have had control lock on?
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Seriously, just watched the video. I have over 2000 hours Captain on DC3. Keep it simple Cargo/Passengers over the wing, control check before power and tail up at 40 knots basic stuff. Complete pilot error glad everyone got out.
Tail up 40kts, rotate 81 knots positive rate / climb 90 knots accelerate to 110kts...... not hard. T/O Power 2700RPM/48 inches Climb 2350RPM/36 inches. |
so Why is the observer so vocal with a bunch of holy S**** early in the sequence when the tail just lifts a few inches?.
Is it because he expected the tail to continue coming up to level. If so then this seems unlikely to be just a pilot error |
However, the C47 has fairly benign stalling characteristics |
Eric Janson and Centaurus are absolutely right about how nasty the DC3 power on stall can be. In training it is usually done at very low power and at altitude for very good reason! Take no notice of 4 Holer. He does not have 2000 hours Captain on anything, let alone DC3. He claims it is “not hard”. Not what most experienced pilots would say about those old time aircraft. They bite cocky people. Should they not be paying attention, they bite uncocky people too. To make an early “complete pilot error” judgement is unfair and illustrates his ignorance of the facts and many potential causes yet to be determined. Just one possible cause, and note use of word ‘possible’ . If that aircraft had the original autopilot, a broken follow up cable has been known to cause control problems. |
ME, correct 2159 hrs DC3 plus 727/737/MD80/MD11/747 back to the Cessna at flying school for you bet your over 65 sound very angry... Its Pilot error 100% tail was not up at 40 knots SIMPLE = CLOSE THE THROTTLES... Broken Autopilot cable what a silly comment,
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo
(Post 10202719)
so Why is the observer so vocal with a bunch of holy S**** early in the sequence when the tail just lifts a few inches?.
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo
(Post 10202719)
so Why is the observer so vocal with a bunch of holy S**** early in the sequence when the tail just lifts a few inches?.
5port |
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