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Boeing Hypersonic airliner
Intriguing announcement.
https://www.boeing.com/features/2018...t-vehicle.page For Boeing to even float this as an idea would suggest that even absent the SR-72 supposed sightings etc. the military classified technology is a lot more advanced than we're currently aware of. Flight International thinks they're just flying a very speculative kite - so to speak. https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...c-airl-449749/ The concept follows a long tradition of aircraft companies releasing highly ambitious, long-term design concepts meant to inspire the public and attract young engineers seeking the most challenging assignments. |
it’s possible a hypersonic passenger vehicle could be airborne in 20 to 30 years. All the two generations in between get is the 'joy' of non-stop 18-hr trips from London to Perth @ 550 mph; DVT guaranteed. Progress my a***! |
Thing about this:
In the 1700's, rapid long distance travel was typically about 6 mph - the speed of a horse drawn carriage or a large sailing craft. In the 1800's, rapid long distance travel was around 60 mph - the speed of a steam locomotive. In the 1900's, rapid long distance travel was around 600 mph - the speed of a jet aircraft. In the 2000's??? |
Concorde: I've watched this lovely gal takeoff and land and have visited her in a decommissioned state, but have never taken flight, so this news is most welcome. I understand for power, they are looking at using a turbine core that will be cocooned at speed and altitude allowing a ramjet to take over. Another surprising change is the planned lack of reheat until well aloft.
Our hypersonic expertise gained through the Blackbird programme will no doubt be helpful, but I also wonder if there are Concorde engineers that might also participate? |
Originally Posted by vapilot2004
(Post 10182502)
Our hypersonic expertise gained through the Blackbird programme will no doubt be helpful, but I also wonder if there are Concorde engineers that might also participate?
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/...main_YF-12.pdf |
Proposed powerplant indeed sounds very much like the SR-72 retractable turbine core - folding away to become a pure scramjet.
I think max speed the SR-71 attained was around Mach 3.5 - but Brian Schul reckoned he flew faster on the Libya mission. More likely your expertise on the X-15 will be relevant - that thing was flying at a mile a second back in the 1960s. I live in hope of blowing the final bit of my old age pension on a hypersonic passenger flight... |
Originally Posted by tartare
(Post 10182520)
I think max speed the SR-71 attained was around Mach 3.5 - but Brian Schul reckoned he flew faster on the Libya mission.
How fast could the Blackbirds fly? The maximum design cruise speed was Mach 3.2. The speed was limited by structural temperature restrictions. Fastest known flights: YF-12A (60-6936) – Mach 3.14 (2,070 mph), USAF, official, 1 May 1965 SR-71B(61-7956) – Mach 3.27 (2,158 mph), NASA, unofficial, 14 December 1995 and 4 March 1997 A-12 (60-6928) – Mach 3.29 (2,171 mph), CIA, unofficial, 8 May 1965 SR-71A (61-7972) – Mach 3.32 (2,193 mph), USAF, official, 27 July 1976 Brian Shul's numbers sometimes seem to get better with age ;) as with his famous ground speed readout story: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/sr-7...d-speed-check/ |
The physics of long range hypersonic flight requires such aircraft to operate at the very upper levels of the atmosphere. That requires specialist propellants and possibly a supply of on board oxider in addition to fuel. Basically a specialised rocket that takes off and lands horizontally. If regular flights ever do take place, does spewing thousands of tons a day of carbon dioxide, water vapour and nitrous oxides into the uppermost levels of the atmosphere seem like a good idea? That is where current technology will lead us. An air breathing, liquid hydrogen powered vehicle might solve the most obvious pollution problems but there would still remain the problem of extreme altitude clouds forming. They might have a beneficial effect in cooling the earth slightly, but then we have no idea what other side effects might occur, especially if combined with a major volcanic eruption or two. Perhaps it is time to take a step back and try to perfect a slower non (directly) polluting form of flight. If you can get from one side of the earth to another withing 24 hours, that should be quick enough. Anything more urgent will just have to be dealt with by a virtual presence teleconference. |
Boeing's just playing "keep up with Airbus." https://techxplore.com/news/2015-08-...us-patent.html
There must be a thousand "concept planes" like these, some dating back decades (but not obviously different from Boeing's) - they usually result in nothing but an artist's impression. However, there are some small steps being taken all the time towards solving the multitudinous problems involved - e.g. experiments now in progress to reduce "sonic boom" footprints, etc. I don't doubt that someone will get there some day - all it takes is enough cash, enough will, and enough engineering (read: more cash) |
Perhaps Gouli.
But I'd still love to see that vapour trail 18 miles up, arcing across the sky - even for the sake of a bit of global cooling. Find myself wondering `why now?' Has there been a significant breakthrough...? |
Originally Posted by tartare
(Post 10182559)
Perhaps Gouli.
But I'd still love to see that vapour trail 18 miles up, arcing across the sky - even for the sake of a bit of global cooling. Find myself wondering `why now?' Has there been a significant breakthrough...? |
Hypersonic is something military going on. If the military funds the engines there might be the technical possibilty of future commercial secondary uses.
At this time it's more some marketing phantasy maybe to show how fancy working in good old engineering is compared to Google or similar. |
Fortunately the environmental damage from this marketing exercise will be confined to however many trees were cut down to make the glossies |
Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 10182632)
Hypersonic is something military going on. If the military funds the engines there might be the technical possibilty of future commercial secondary uses.
At this time it's more some marketing phantasy maybe to show how fancy working in good old engineering is compared to Google or similar. To work on advanced weapons requires clearances, which take years to obtain, so having the recruits work on an unclassified civil development is a practical way to find the most competent even before they can start the real work. |
Titanium is a prerequisite for constructing hypersonic vehicles. Given that Russia and China have the majority share of world Titanium production, exactly where will the US be sourcing its' supplies? The current tariff disputes are hardly going to work to the benefit of Boeing, or any other US manufacturer. One is left with the impression that while Boeing or Lockheed may come up with the plans, the next supersonic or hypersonic passenger aircraft is going to come out of China. The Chinese are inclined to take a much longer view with regards to returns on investment and development costs, especially if it comes to establishing world dominance in a specialist field. This aircraft will undoubtably be built someday, but it won't be in the US. |
And one wonders what a 100 seat Mach 2.0 airliner as an evolution of Concorde would look like. New lightweight materials, digital technology (no need for a FE or their panel), less noise, more range.
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Now then - what happened to HOTOL ?
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I think there is too much hot air and not enough real world progress being made concerning all the speed hype. If you see real rockets routinely landing backwards on floating plattforms to be reused these days what we see here is plain boring. Wake me up when it's ready. However the black world might be different.
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Back in 1981 the industry in which I planned my entire engineering career (agriculture) was plummeting with half of the major North American manufacturers going bankrupt. My company was bought by a German firm but the future wasn't rosy so I started job hunting. My headhunter arranged an interview with a defense company. During my interview I was told that these were what in the future would be termed "The Good Old Days". Reagan had opened the purse strings wide to anything military. My job would to be see that the company got their piece of the action. It would be working with other companies on concepts that would never get beyond early prototype stage. The company is now part of BAE Systems Land and Armaments. I was shown some very futuristic designs that I never saw beyond the concept stage. As the US military has now once again been given a blank check, deficit be damned, people will again see visions attracting company's piece of the action.
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Originally Posted by vapilot2004
(Post 10182502)
but I also wonder if there are Concorde engineers that might also participate?
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