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-   -   EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607757-ec-notice-brexit-issued-licenses-certificates-invalid.html)

highcirrus 19th May 2018 08:49

CargoOne


Brussel is not that stupid to let UK enjoy single market without allowing free labour movement.
EFTA states have the right to invoke the Article unilaterally. Nothing to do with the EU. Please read the link provided.

Kitiara

Excellent that you've posted Articles 112 and 113. We can see the facts. Could you maybe post the basis for your opinion expressed as:


UK would not be able to make the case for experiencing hardship as a consequence of free movement of people that would be required to invoke article 112
I'm sure you know that Liechtenstein has successfully invoked Article 112 for some years now.

Kitiara 19th May 2018 09:07


Originally Posted by highcirrus (Post 10151135)

Kitiara

Could you maybe post the basis for your opinion



I specifically differentiated between the articles and interpretation I posted and the opinion I posted since the opinion was simply that - my personal opinion. It is not based on any specific research, but rather is informed by my life experiences and what I have taken on board over the years as I have read news stories, talked with people and generally lived and worked in the UK. Basically, I don't see the basis for a case that the UK has suffered as a consequence of free movement. Certainly where I live, local farmers have benefitted significantly from EU migrant labour as has both local hospital. My GP is a Chinese immigrant and presently the only GP at the practice due to lack of applicants to fill vacancies. One of my neighbours is a German citizen who has lived in the village for 25 years, operates a business and employs 18 people.

I'm certain there are many that have different experiences to me, and thus hold different opinions, but my opinion is as it is.

highcirrus 19th May 2018 09:42

Kitiara

Thanks for your considered reply and I think that we certainly have points of agreement. Your observation of agricultural EU migrant labour is most pertinent and my understanding is that seasonal workers are now staying away from UK due weak Sterling, a perceived "hostile environment" and higher wages in other EU countries. Perhaps free movement of labour is not only a "red line" but also a "red herring" and we are in danger of shooting ourselves in the foot (that's enough metaphors!)?

The point I'm attempting to allude to is that this particular "red line" is a chimera that can be politically finessed by EFTA/EEA membership, whether Article 112 is invoked or not.

Brat 19th May 2018 10:17


Originally Posted by ZFT (Post 10117227)
Why are you surprised?

If you leave any club, you lose club 'benefits' and/or privileges

Chaos is quite likely in the short term.

But in most cases are not required to keep on paying club fees!

Brat 19th May 2018 10:18


Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry (Post 10140915)
Yeah - "we don't like you, we hate the way you run things, we want to stand on our own and take our own decisions... but can you just let us back in this case.... please, please..."

Err well, perhaps not everyone is as keen to stay as you Harry.

Denti 19th May 2018 10:19

In the case of Liechtenstein every single one of the parties has an interest that the, yes, technically time restricted, status quo continues. Liechtenstein for its own reasons, the rest to reduce the exodus of too many wealthy families (there is absolutely no restriction on family reunification in Liechtenstein, one person moving into Liechtenstein then can get his whole family into there) into a low tax environment.

That interest wouldn't be there in the case of the UK. And yes, while they can invoke the Article 112 unilaterally, it has to be done in a restricted manner in terms of time of application and scope of application or the corresponding parties can of course similarly Article 112 against the UK.

highcirrus 12th Jun 2018 21:37

ADS and GAMA letter to Michel Barnier on aviation safety talks
 
Looks like people are just starting to wake up to what is about to happen:


We are concerned that steps need to be taken urgently to make arrangements on aviation safety after the UK leaves the EU.

As such, we have written to European Chief Negotiator Michel Barnier – in a joint letter with the General Aviation Manufacturers Association (GAMA), an international trade association for the sector – to request that the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) begin technical and contingency planning discussions by June’s European Council, separately from political negotiations.

If aviation safety arrangements have not been fully prepared to avoid any uncertainty over the legal status of UK certified aircraft designs and parts, or aircraft maintenance approvals, pilot and technician licences, aircraft could be unable to fly.

Just to refresh, the original Brexit Notice to Stakeholders refers.

Heathrow Harry 13th Jun 2018 06:32


Originally Posted by Brat (Post 10151212)
But in most cases are not required to keep on paying club fees!

you are if you want to drop in for the occasional snifter tho' - that's the issue here - some people want out and then complain they lose the benefits they would like to keep.................

Heathrow Harry 13th Jun 2018 17:09


Originally Posted by NAROBS (Post 10172077)
Has the government mouthpiece, the Bee Bee Ceeb, reported this yet - may be I missed it, along with the report on the Met. Office computer having a nervous breakdown.

N

absolutely no interest from the great British public in arcana like this

they'll only notice if and when they can't fly to Majorca for 20 quid

BluSdUp 14th Jun 2018 12:00

So as of march next year my UK medical is no use flying a EU company? Charming!

Denti 14th Jun 2018 18:35


Originally Posted by BluSdUp (Post 10172732)
So as of march next year my UK medical is no use flying a EU company? Charming!

Only if there is no deal, any deal will likely include the extended transition period (in which the UK has full access to the EU market, but no say anymore in its rules), so your medical should be fine ;)

Heathrow Harry 14th Jun 2018 18:37

Only if........................

BluSdUp 14th Jun 2018 20:43

Denti,
Thanks, all this Exit-ment is no good for my blood-pressure!

Nahh, no bother , Grown ups in the Government will sort it out to everyone's delight. Us commoners with responsibility for 200 plus people on a day to day basis must not get to exited, I suppose.
Mind You , if John Clees and his old Flying Circus shows up for a ramp-check, I for one would not be surprised.

highcirrus 15th Jun 2018 08:35

FAA Prepared To Oversee Its U.K. MROs If Needed
 
Regulator plans for possibility of no new regulatory bilateral agreement being reached.


FAA, planning for a worst-case scenario, is prepared to take over surveillance of its 180 approved repair stations in the U.K. if a new regulatory bilateral agreement isn't in place when the country leaves the European Union (EU) next year.

The UK government has not announced how it will regulate its aviation industry following the so-called Brexit--its decision to leave the EU effective April 1, 2019. One certainty: the UK will no longer be under the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) as an EU member. The UK's options--and the most likely outcome--include adopting EASA's regulations as a non-EU member, similar to what several countries, including Norway and Switzerland, have done. Another option is to use the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) regulations as a foundation and go it alone.


highcirrus 15th Jun 2018 11:44

EU warns British airlines on post-Brexit flying
 
This was reported by Reuters on 13 December 2017. The British Government remains silent on the matter to the present day. Is anyone else getting a little worried by the increasing likelihood of a no deal "Hard Brexit" producing this catastrophe, or am I the only one?


BRUSSELS (Reuters) - British airlines will lose all flying rights the European Union has negotiated with third countries as well as those negotiated by individual EU states after Britain quits the bloc, the EU executive said in a note.

In a notice to all airlines, a stark reminder of the risks facing the sector if there is no Brexit deal, the European Commission said UK air carriers would no longer enjoy traffic rights under any air transport agreement to which the EU is a party, such as the U.S.-EU Open Skies agreement.

They would also lose flying rights under agreements between individual EU member states and third countries as they would not longer be considered EU airlines.

In addition, all operating licenses granted by the British civil aviation authority will no longer be valid for the EU, the notice said, which means the airlines would be cut off from the intra-EU market.


SamYeager 15th Jun 2018 18:38


Originally Posted by highcirrus (Post 10173599)
This was reported by Reuters on 13 December 2017. The British Government remains silent on the matter to the present day. Is anyone else getting a little worried by the increasing likelihood of a no deal "Hard Brexit" producing this catastrophe, or am I the only one?

It'll be alright on the night! ;)

Father Dick Byrne 15th Jun 2018 18:48


Originally Posted by SamYeager (Post 10173818)
It'll be alright on the night! ;)

No it fekin won’t.

This is going to be a catastrophe for the country, and aviation will likely feel the hits first and hardest.

...and no, this has nothing to do with ‘democracy’.

Heathrow Harry 16th Jun 2018 07:03

For obvious reasons this forum is concentrating on the aviation issues

NONE of which are being reported in the press

I wonder how many other industries are facing the same situation and likewise we know nothing about it?

rudestuff 16th Jun 2018 09:51

Bring on the catastrophe! It's amazing how much fear can be whipped up. We could still yet retain membership of EASA, but if we don't... Guess what? We still have exactly the same rights within Europe as anyany ot ICAO country. Our licences will still be ICAO licences (they just won't be EASA anymore) The concept of an EASA licence is a joke anyway - in theory you can use it on any EASA aircraft - in practice Ryanair will only accept an Irish licence!
​​​​​​The bottom line is that passengers are still going to want to fly, so the same number of aircraft and pilots will be needed to fly them. Maybe the Reg will change, maybe they won't. Anyway, there are bigger things than aviation. Brexit is supposed to be about bringing back democracy and boosting the economy.


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