PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Rumours & News (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news-13/)
-   -   EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607757-ec-notice-brexit-issued-licenses-certificates-invalid.html)

Meikleour 20th Jun 2018 12:52

It strikes me that the issue of the UK being unable to negotiate any air related legislation post Brexit while still being part of the EU is simply the lawyers putting their narrow viewpoint on things. Remember, policies are devised by the politicians but drafted by lawyers - so it is up to the politicians to advise the lawyers to arrange the appropriate changes required! If one simply took a narrow legal view of everything then no laws would ever be changed!

ELondonPax 20th Jun 2018 12:52

Polax52. I think that - given we are still in the EU and bound by all the rules and obligations that go with that - the role has to be open to anyone who can demonstrate their right to work in any of EU28.
It seems astonishingly late to be creating this job, and how do they expect to get anyone with serious negotiating ability at that salary level?

am111 20th Jun 2018 13:04

Independent article covering the negotiation job posting

Brexit Head Aviation Negotiator Job Only Just Advertised By Government


A Department for Transport spokesperson said: “dedicated teams with many years of experience and expertise” are already working on post-Brexit aviation.

“We are now are looking to supplement these existing teams with additional posts.

“Our EU exit plans are well developed and we are working closely with business and trade associations to provide the certainty they need to understand the challenges and opportunities they may face in the coming months and year.

Porky Speedpig 20th Jun 2018 14:59


Originally Posted by Daysleeper (Post 10177243)
I hesitate to post this and wonder which Brexit thread it should be in but with a talent search like this the UK is buggered:

DfT is advertising for a Head of Aviation for EU Exit Negotiations (Pays £62K) and

They are also looking for Senior Policy advisors on international aviation to paying all of £40-45K.

For an even bigger laugh both jobs are open to EEA citizens.

Utterly extraordinary

Denti 20th Jun 2018 18:50


Originally Posted by Joe le Taxi (Post 10177581)
Gertrude - Practically no one here wants Brexit, but we are where we are, and on both sides, we'd like the respective aviation authorities to be allowed to work towards some sort of resolution. For Brussels to step in to block this process out of pure spite, is petulant and beneath contempt (and in the end will bite them in the arse, for the reasons the Times article explained).

Thing is, EASA couldn‘t begin any talks, even if they wanted to, as EU rules, voted on by the UK, do not allow that. What many do not grasp, and what is truly different from the UK system, is the fact that the EU is a heavily rule based thing. Same as most central european countries as well to be honest. And EASA can talk with third countries on a business to business level, but the agreement that allows such talks has to be voted on by the european parliament (and most probably every local one) before that can happen. And since the UK is not a third country yet (it will be on march 30th 2019), there can be no such agreement unless there is a separation agreement and after that an agreement on future relations, which might include stuff like a common aviation market or limited open sky agreement. However, it will be very challenging indeed to get that even before the end of the transition period, especially so as the separation agreement talks are not going well.

highcirrus 21st Jun 2018 09:02

Joe le Taxi


I'm surprised no one has mentioned the times article reporting that Brussels has banned easa from cooperating with the ukcaa on post Brexit arrangements.
Please see my post ♯198. I'm not sure the Commission is guilty of "out and out blackmail - the eu deliberately forcing a crisis situation". As I quoted Dr. Richard North's blog at EU Referendum :


Thus, we had from The Times the claim that "Brussels bars aviation chiefs from preparing for no-deal", based on an unconfirmed assertion that the European Commission had intervened after the aerospace industry had contacted Barnier, specifically to prevent EASA and the CAA from holding talks.

However, had the paper taken more note of what I had written in my second piece, they would perhaps have understood that – in the absence of a Withdrawal Agreement and the transition period - it is not possible for EASA to enter into talks with the CAA to secure the optimum outcome, a Bilateral Aviation Safety Agreement (BASA).

This, I observed, is a full-blown treaty and can only be negotiated by the EU and the UK government. And, to do that, they need to use the formal procedure set out in Article 218 of the consolidated treaties. Such negotiations are way above the pay scale of the agencies and, as with the broader post-Brexit relationship, the negotiation process can only be undertaken once the UK has left the EU and formally acquired the status of a "third country".

Failing the settlement of a BASA, there is provision within the Basic Regulation (Regulation (EC) No 216/2008) for inter-agency agreements between EASA and the "aeronautical authorities of third countries" (Article 27). But, once again, the qualifying requirement is for the UK to assume the status of a third country.
Again, as I mentioned:


Either of the above solutions, of course, as Dr. North says, would only be possible following a negotiated Withdrawal Agreement after which UK would become a "third country" and enter a transition period to 31 December 2020. A "crash out" Hard Brexit with no Agreement and hence no transition period, would lead to Aerospace/Air Transport Armageddon.

Just a spotter 21st Jun 2018 13:30


Prior knowledge of airspace and the aviation sector is an advantage but not necessary.
Knowing what you're actually doing just wouldn't be very Brexit, now would it?!

From the ouside looking in, the UK's approach to Brexit seems to be a mix of "Lance Corporal Jones" and "Private Walker", in the face of the reality being "Private Frazer"*

*look at the Royal Mail's Dad's Army Stamps

JAS

radiosutch 21st Jun 2018 21:38

It would seem PPRUNE is stuffed with remoaners. We're leaving, get over it.

highcirrus 22nd Jun 2018 00:18

Good bye, Airbus, it was nice to know you...
 
radiosutch

Maybe the Airbus employees currently making wings at Broughton won't be sharing your casual insouciance tonight. Check out The Times: Airbus is set to be the first big manufacturer to pull investment from Britain after losing patience with Theresa May's stalled Brexit negotiations ......

highcirrus 22nd Jun 2018 00:35

A little more on The Times report of Airbus pulling out of UK, despite directly employing 14,000 personnel and supporting a further 110,000 jobs in the supply chain:


Even if Mrs May succeeds in managing an “orderly Brexit”, the manufacturer makes clear it will “refrain from extending its UK suppliers and partners base” until it sees how the new relationship with the EU will work.

The prime minister’s promised transition phase that ends in December 2020 does not allow enough time to prevent disruption likely to cost the firm billions of pounds in delays, lost orders and angry customers, Airbus says.

“The clock is ticking. If we decide now that we need one or two months of additional inventory because we are worried about these components getting stuck in the docks of Dover or Calais, then from a contingency point of view I have to do something,” Mr Williams said. “These are decisions we are in the process of making right now. We are in the process of instructing our suppliers to begin ramping up safety stocks of components.”

Looking to future production increases, he said: “The question for me is should I be doing that in the UK with all the uncertainty that I have? Or should we be starting to prepare alternative sources so I can protect the business in the long term? We have to look after our customers and shareholders.” Expanding operations in China was one alternative being prepared, he added.

The company says it laid out its concerns at a private meeting with Mrs May, also attended by Rolls-Royce and others, three weeks ago.

Greg Clark, the business secretary, is understood to have been pressing big companies to go public as he and Philip Hammond, the chancellor, fight moves led by Boris Johnson to push the government into a more aggressive stance in Brexit talks. Mr Clark cited Airbus in a speech yesterday as he underlined the importance of a Brexit that did not stop the movement of highly skilled workers.

A government spokeswoman said: “We have made significant progress towards agreeing a deep and special partnership with the EU to ensure trade remains as free and frictionless as possible, including in aerospace . . . We do not expect a no-deal scenario to arise.”

A harbinger of things to come in the airline sector of the UK economy?

superflanker 22nd Jun 2018 17:58

My god. Just reach a f****** agreement. Or at least establish a long transition period so EU citizens that are somehow related to UK CAA can get a way out.

Gertrude the Wombat 22nd Jun 2018 18:41


Originally Posted by superflanker (Post 10179414)
My god. Just reach a f****** agreement. Or at least establish a long transition period so EU citizens that are somehow related to UK CAA can get a way out.

The #brexiteers have decided not to do that.

Alber Ratman 22nd Jun 2018 19:48


Originally Posted by radiosutch (Post 10178726)
It would seem PPRUNE is stuffed with remoaners. We're leaving, get over it.

Because it is highly going to affect my job and other propects and I am rather concerned about that. If you know anything about the regulation side of aviation, you would be worried, however it seems that you do not (looking at your other posts on here, are you engaged in an aviation job at all?). Most on here are likely to be remainers because we knew the mess that would occur with a leave vote and nothing that has happened since has changed my mind.

superflanker 22nd Jun 2018 20:55

What the hell happened to the transition deal?????

Gertrude the Wombat 22nd Jun 2018 21:05


Originally Posted by superflanker (Post 10179527)
What the hell happened to the transition deal?????

Does rather depend on the Irish border being sorted, which can't happen because of the intransigence of the UK position. So there will be no transition deal. And we've known this all along.

superflanker 22nd Jun 2018 21:37

Regardless of that, EASA should give a window to the people to change their licences, etc. Not doing that will harm people that are not even British.

highcirrus 22nd Jun 2018 21:46

Licence Transfer
 
superflanker

Maybe start the licence change process now?

superflanker 22nd Jun 2018 22:05


Originally Posted by highcirrus (Post 10179547)
superflanker

Maybe start the licence change process now?

Yes, but I think EASA should provide some guidelines.
And in my specific case, I have not license yet, and I am finishing my ground school exams. There isn't any document that explains my options or even if that this exams will remain valid or not after the deadline (no specific mention to this in the pdf, as exams are not a license nor a certificate). And I am sure I am not the only one going through this specific case. And I am sure that there are a lot of different cases to solve. EASA should look after this things.

Gertrude the Wombat 22nd Jun 2018 22:12


Originally Posted by superflanker (Post 10179554)
There isn't any document that explains my options or even if that this exams will remain valid or not after the deadline

That'll be 'cos nobody knows. But what we do know is that "brexit means brexit" so you just have to guess from there.

If I were in the process of acquiring a professional licence in the UK just right now I think I'd be looking to move to an EU27 country to finish the course and make sure I get my application in before May 29. Provided of course you can get an EU27 passport (many Brits can get an Irish passport just by asking nicely (well, and spending a few months shuffling loads of paper around and paying a few hundred quid), but sadly not all can).

superflanker 22nd Jun 2018 22:33


Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat (Post 10179559)
If I were in the process of acquiring a professional licence in the UK just right now I think I'd be looking to move to an EU27 country to finish the course and make sure I get my application in before May 29. Provided of course you can get an EU27 passport (many Brits can get an Irish passport just by asking nicely (well, and spending a few months shuffling loads of paper around and paying a few hundred quid), but sadly not all can).

In my case, I'm not even British. In fact, I've never been to the uk. I have a medical and a ppl from Spain. I am just doing my distance learning on a British school because they are great and I am aiming to get an Spanish license. In my patparticular case, the exams under the UK CAA are the issue (despite I will finish them under 100% EASA regulation, but this seems not to worth anything) but the thing is there is thousands of people like me and with other problems that EASA is not adressing. They should release another pdf named WHAT THE HELL TO DO. There is less than a year ahead.


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:52.


Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.