Looking at the photos boths slats and flaps are clearly out, appear to be 1+F (T/O setting).

You have now got me trying to remember the failure wherby the aircraft will give 1+F rather than just Flap 1,and I am guessing it will be some sort of ADR failure.The Avherald is reporting that there was no data from the transponder for the latter stages, which woud suggest a failure of date from ADR1

Simon is not correct in this case, there is ADR data for the last stage, but only speed and heading, no altitude. The final 180 loop is treated as a separate flight in the FR24 database, this seems to be the cause of the confusion:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...s-san#1091b691


The same was commented on AVH but probably Simon did not yet see it.

The FR24 data (as usual) needs to be treated with caution.

The last three plot points are definitely incorrect, showing the aircraft's final position (after the teardrop turn) about a mile northwest of the 08 THR, heading west at 160 kts. That's probably FR24 doing a bit of dumb extrapolation based on the last reliable position plot (turning onto the 26 centreline at 15:10Z).

Incidentally, one thing that can be discerned from the FR24 data is that the training detail of 10 circuits appears to have included a couple of GAs and one full stop landing as well as touch-and-goes. The final circuit before the crash was, needless to say, a T&G.

Of course, I merely pointed out that there was some transmitted data, though quite clearly patchy and unreliable.


As I'm in Tallinn currently, I do check FR24 quite often for arriving flights, there is some signal disturbance for almost all rwy 26 approaches, flights usually end up North of the airport instead of shown as being on the runway.

Very true, I was also watching Tallinn and Helsinki traffic recently and sometimes FR24 shows complete bull**** in terms of aircraft position close to the airport / runaway.

Heard via via so take with a grain/bucket of salt... I don't know anything about Airbus systems so it can be complete bull as well but since it's the rumour forum...

Trainee being PF, could not get nose lifted after touch to proceed with the go, sidestick not responsive or something like that. Captain takes control, lifts off with trim input, due to slow change of pitch, aircraft nearly overspeeds, thrust is reduced, aircraft makes a hard touch down, lifts off again. Both engines fail for whatever reason (story said both caught fire), immediate turn around and landing supposedly in glide pretty much, touching around 50m before threshold.

Not sure about the speed at which they couldn't get the nose up by sidestick, supposedly around or between Vr/V1.

Distance flown between getting airborne after the final T&G and touching down again was around 11 nm.

It's unlikely that much of that was flown with zero thrust.

It will be interesting to see if the remaining A320 ATO candidates will get to finish their base training. I'm sure all future Base training will be suspended for the time being.

No info about when exactly the engines failed, just that it apparently happened due to the second touchdown. As I said, take it with a load of skepticism.

Is this a PTF outfit? If so, they seem to a paid a massive price after their aircraft was severely crippled. Wouldn’t want to see the bill for this one!

They are not a PTF/P2F outfit no

Depends how strict your definition is... This "cadet program" where you pay for your own A320 rating for a chance to join Smartlynx... I would consider that pay to fly.

OK, then Wizz, easyJet, Ryanair, CityJet, BMI Regional, FlyDubai and a countless list of others are also pay2fly


Small Planet ask you to pay for your TR and then you have to make a 40,000eu lump sum payment to them.

Smartlynx don't require this, it's the type rating and that's it (like almost 80% of the rest of europe).

You should do some research before seeking to make such firm statements that are incorrect.

You must be at Smartlynx if calling them P2F is pushing your buttons.

Of course they are a P2F outfit, you buy a type rating and hope to god they use you for some hours on type.

Don't try mix airlines where you are employed before being bonded.
Unfortunately, with the amount of pilots jumping around airlines, the companies now want the employee to bare the cost of a rating, sucks for everyone but it doesn't just happen at the low cost side of aviation!

You won’t hear me say otherwise :).

Out of interest... What kind of “conditional employment contract” does Smartlynx offer with the cadet program? Permanent? Six months?

Anyway, I suppose that is worth a whole other thread in discussion.

Anyone paying for a typerating today must be desperate.And going to this lot and not Ezy, Ryr or major lowcost does tell me a bit about the basic skill of the candidate.

By the way something the trainers are moaning about on a regular basis.
The poor level of cadets today, that is.
Something I can confirm.I never fly with anyone anymore that has the big picture, ever. ( In the old days that was one of the ways of knowing " Is he ready for command?")
Slowly going down over the last 4 to 5 years.
And big pressure to upgrade to cpt as soon as they approach 3000hrs.
I am not surprised we see accidents like this, it being Cpt induced or Cadet induced.

Happy Landings Chaps.
Gone fishing

Great that you have £130,000 burning a whole in your pocket to pay to EZY/CTC/OAA, or are willing to take the plunge with no job offer on the off chance of getting something with RYR upon finishing.


Pay2fly programmes are also knows as 'line training programmes', whereby you pay a large sum of cash to a company in return for flying 500 hours or so on a particular type. Some companies that do this are small planet and pegasus, just off the top of my head.

This is not what smartlynx do. You pay your type rating and then join permanently, not for 500hrs or 1000hrs or anything else - you do not pay for an amount of hours, so it's not pay2fly. This is exactly what most airlines in europe do too.

You may have grievances with other elements of the contract, but that doesn't make it pay2fly. Is it the best contract on earth? No. Is it it the worst? No. But that doesn't make it P2F just cos you don't like it. If you want to invent your own definition of P2F then go ahead, but it's rather disingenuous to try to fool those who may not know any better whilst concealing the real truth.

Anyway I think I saw you post about this on the Italian forum with a laughing face with a sarcastic 'hope no one was injured' ... says all we need to know about you.

Best Regards to you too

C'mon, they offered me a NTR DEC position, I have to pay €29.900 after which I will receive a whooping €235 for every flying day, as captain!!!!

How is this not pay to fly.

I used to pay FA's much more on a daily basis.

Didn't do it

I believe the only person making up definitions for pay to fly is you...

Are you money out of pocket before even flying a single minute for, or receiving a single minute of training from your new employer? You've just paid to fly.

Pay to fly started exactly like this, paying for your rating, and when people fell for that, people smarter than those paying for the ratings decided to make their business out of it and offered 'line training packages' and now 'self funded cadet programs' like the BAA Smartlynx program. If you need to consider it not pay2fly to justify your decision, that's fine. Just don't bring that bull to people who know better.

I'd still like to see what kind of 'conditional employment contract' they offer and if it is really permanent as you say. Even then, is it worth a €100 per day FO salary when you just plunked down €25k and are basically paying your own salary for the first year or so?

This should really go into a separate thread though...

Ontopic... Saw the plane on the apron today, could see the damage from quite some distance. Probably won't just buff out ;)