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-   -   Incident (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/587225-incident.html)

80-87 20th Nov 2016 02:48

Aviation Hearld reports:

A Qatar Airways Boeing 777-300, registration A7-BAO performing flight QR-778 (dep Nov 18th) from Miami,FL (USA) to Doha (Qatar), was enroute at FL350 about 15nm northeast of Zurich (Switzerland) when the crew reported smoke on the flight deck and requested to divert to Zurich with CATIII ILS available for runway 16. ATC reported that only CAT I was available right at that point, CAT II was being activated. About 10 minutes later ATC reported that CAT III was now available for runway 16. The crew requested to dump fuel, but subsequently indicated they were not dumping and preparing for an overweight landing as they had problems with the fuel dump system, then the crew indicated they were now dumping fuel. The aircraft established on the localizer runway 16 still dumping fuel, reported they needed more track miles to descend, were vectored off the localizer again, finished dumping and rejoined the localizer. Tower queried "Confirm gear down and locked", response "gear down and locked, thank you", the aircraft landed safely about 24 minutes after leaving FL350, the crew indicated they would stop on the runway and requested emergency services to check whether there was any smoke visible. Emergency services reported no smoke. The crew reported everything was now normal again, the crew cancelled Mayday and decided to vacate the runway and taxi to the apron.

A replacement Boeing 777-300 registration A7-BAG was dispatched from Doha to Zurich, resumed flight QR-778 about 10:20 hours after landing of A7-BAO in Zurich, and is estimated to reached Doha with a total delay of 10 hours.

ACMS 20th Nov 2016 05:11

Ok, they walked away......good job I say.

slowjet 20th Nov 2016 11:09

Good job ? Smoke (if unidentified) LASAP..yes, overweight. If identified.deal with it, Dump fuel, no lets not, no lets, no lets not...........good grief. Then dumping during approach ? WTF ?????? Mayday issued (because it was later cancelled) and choice of airfield questionable. Might be nearest but was the emergency so bad that you would choose it ? Cat 1, no problem but asking for cat 11 or cat 11, airfieled surrounded by some serious bits of earth (called the Swiss Alps) and an approach not easy in CAVOK !

Good job............seriously ??

But, don't know all the facts. Of those presented on a Rumour & news network,.........put on the Kettle & get the bickies ready CP. This is gonna be good !

Right Hand Thread 20th Nov 2016 11:56

But, don't know all the facts.

Yet you feel obliged to criticise the crew's handling of a fuel system you don't know (or nature of any problem they might have had with it) and their choice of alternate with a smoke-filled cockpit?

Please tell me you are not professional air crew.

Jetjock330 20th Nov 2016 13:05

Perhaps smoke in the cockpit, an autoland sounds like a plan if you can't see too well. There is a limit to the autoland, that is shouldn't be over weight. I have no clue what happened, but no one was hurt and the equipment was looked after: so it seems. Good job for now

zerograv 20th Nov 2016 13:58

Miami - Doha
Over Switzerland still has fuel to dump? :confused:
Does the 773 also dumps fuel from wing tanks?

The Ancient Geek 20th Nov 2016 14:23

Oh dear, here we go again with the amatuer nitpicking.
Please give it a rest, the crew clearly did what was best in view of what information was available to them. Nobody here has that information yet and we will probably have to wait until th report is published.

The aircrew are professional pilots so give them the courtesy due to fellow professionals.

sonicbum 20th Nov 2016 14:39

Most probably while dealing with the checklist the source of smoke was identified and isolated which again probably allowed the crew to buy some extra time and dump the fuel. This is just my guess obviously I have no idea on how things went but I am pretty sure that these guys, like all of us after the Swissair accident, know that there is no time to lose during a smoke/fire.
Good job.

Jetjock330 20th Nov 2016 14:49

Just heard the audio, doing the rounds on What's app! Clearly the crew were on oxygen masks. Serious stuff and for those of us that have practiced this, knows fully well, this is one scenario we all want to avoid!

RedBullGaveMeWings 20th Nov 2016 17:16


Permafrost_ATPL 20th Nov 2016 18:12

slowjet, that was one of the most uninformed posts I have seen in a long time.

Based on the tape, it sounds like these guys removed their masks on the approach, so they must have identified and dealt with the source of smoke. At that point, you are transitioning from emergency to precautionary landing. Therefore priorities such as fuel dumping, cabin ready, etc get reassessed. Listening to the audio, I'm hearing some very professional pilots and ATC dealing calmly with a difficult and dynamic situation. Well done.

Capt Ecureuil 20th Nov 2016 19:57

I'm guessing that slow jet isn't familiar with the Smoke and Fumes checklist so perhaps we shouldn't criticise his crass post.

Mr Slow Jet, if you want to learn then send me a pm

oleary 21st Nov 2016 02:43

Swiss Air 111
Smoke in the cockpit.

Get the rocket on the ground.

What part of this concept do some folks not understand?

Nobody got hurt, nothing got busted. :rolleyes:

45989 21st Nov 2016 03:07

Have trainspotters got nothing else to do? Pathetic really.

DaveReidUK 21st Nov 2016 07:22

Originally Posted by oleary (Post 9584778)
Nobody got hurt, nothing got busted.

Do you think that lessons can only be learned from events where people get killed or aircraft get bent ... ?

faheel 21st Nov 2016 09:30

This was a good outcome for everyone concerned,it goes to show what should happen in an emergency situation all well handled by the flight deck crew and Swiss atc.
The aircraft was what 2/3 thirds? into the flight to Qatar when this emergency happened,luckily for all involved they were over Europe and not over the Atlantic or worse still over the middle east when things went pear shaped.

For all of you arm chair critics who (with the benefit of hindsight) think you can do better just give it a rest and accept that all concerned got the result needed and expected of aviation professionals.

Arewerunning 21st Nov 2016 10:25

A typical scenario that Lufthansa Mainline runs on the sim is to have an unestinguishable engine fire right after lift off from BREMEN. BREMEN IS CAT III. HAMBURG has non precision WX with all the many precision approaches (CAT I or higher) available. Smoke is also reported in the cabin.

Autoland is required but you are overweight -here the analogy with QR 778- what would you do?

Dufo 21st Nov 2016 10:41

Unextinguishable fire with cabin smoke vs. overweight landing shouldn't take much time for decision.
Brake fire is easier and safer to put out than smoldering crater. Plus the plane can be reused again.

slowjet 21st Nov 2016 11:27

Calm down girls and put the handbags away. I like David Reid's best (always measured & reflective). I always thought that the silly joke about being able to walk away from a landing meant that it was a good one, was, just a silly joke. Some of you seem to measure competence by the that statement though.

I highlighted the fact that my comments were about the Herald report.I suggested that the report may not be factual.

For the twerp who took a swing at my quals ; 40 years, 22,500 hrs, 18000 Command, all transport, all heavy, 20 years TRE/IRE and 10 years Head of Selection.
And the other self righteous twerp who offered PM consultation, thanks, but.......howzit go (?).............no thanks.

No-one knows, yet , what happened. Being QR, I doubt any of us ever will . Rumours & news on a open forum will invite lots of thoughts & discussion & mine were openers on what might have happened.

Like some who rush into attack-print mode.........think first please. And, if you really are in the scenario as suggested by the thread opener, think, think, think. That is why I regularly throw the same scenario in the sim. The lesson plan is to get people to think. The most obvious solution may not be the most desirable. Just being able to walk away is not the self congratulation I seek as my pen hovers over the licence renewal forms !

FlightDetent 21st Nov 2016 11:38

Fair enough. Zurich is not Geneva or Innsbruck however, multiple runways too.

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