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-   -   Emirates B777 gear collapse @ DXB? (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/582445-emirates-b777-gear-collapse-dxb.html)

P24BA2 3rd Aug 2016 12:32

Wind Shear Go Around
 
The 777 Windhear Go Around says "Do not change gear or flap configuration until wind shear is no longer a factor".

too_much 3rd Aug 2016 12:33

The fatality was within the emergency services workers not pax & crew.

ACMS 3rd Aug 2016 12:36

A person that dedicates their life to saving others has died? That's not good.

Wing Flex 3rd Aug 2016 12:38

From an eye witness (pilot on the ground at the time)
They touched down hard then aborted the landing which lead to a go around. They were in the process of a go-around (configuration) but it sank back on the runway. Maybe that's why the landing gear appears to be up as it skidded on the ground. It most probably sank/fell back onto the runway due to extreme weather (temperature, low pressure/the gear doors opening/then closing i.e: increased drag) and that the B773 performance struggles at that those conditions. Look at FCOM2 for the 773.

There is discussion about possible windshear. Wind direction may not justify that but when EK aircraft land behind each other at Dxb they have an amended approval of 3nm separation to help aliviate congestion. An agreement between EK and the airport authority. Could this contribute? Did an EK aircraft land infront? Many questions but all will be answered.
Thankfully no lives lost.
Captain - local
F/O - Australian

atakacs 3rd Aug 2016 12:38


Seems they've now censored the tweet. Video of pax on airfield been removed!!
I've seen it (as many others I guess) but indeed taken down.
To be honest nothing major to report - a bunch of mostly Indian people walking away from the aircraft, some carrying cabin luggage. Seems pretty orderly, although not much ground support / firefighter to be seen.

chute packer 3rd Aug 2016 12:39

Pax on airfield tweet here:
https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/760804140154970113

MATELO 3rd Aug 2016 12:46


Did an EK aircraft land infront?
An EK 773 from Chennai landed before it.

ChazR 3rd Aug 2016 12:48

Whatever the cause, I am in awe of the cabin crew and flight deck crew. To evacuate every passenger and all the crew from a total hull loss is beyond professional. It's legendary.

We always study every aspect of a failure. I hope we study every aspect of this success.

With rumours of a serious outcome for a member of the response team - we need to learn from that, too. Those who rush to help can be at highest risk themselves.

But, frankly, DAMN! Is the 777 the toughest jet ever? Built like a tank, but with no extra weight.

Ian W 3rd Aug 2016 12:53


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 9460643)
A good outcome does not indicate an effective decision making process. Plenty of people have made appalling decisions over the years without a bad outcome. Some people have made extraordinary decisions in diabolical situations and not lived to see the next dawn.

Every decision to stay has significant risks. The point often lost in the QF32 incident was the crew had the ability with QF procedures to disembark with slides and not as an evac. This allowed them to nominate which slides they wanted to use and to do it at a more sedate rate that minimised injuries- ie they could have used main deck only slides and taken their time to get set up properly on the ground with appropriately briefed ABPs to assist.

So if a 'good decision' is made and because of that decision a number of pax are injured and some die, whereas had that action not been taken all would have survived uninjured. You would still defend the decision as a good one? Interesting logic.

The word decision implies that there are alternative courses of action. Those who claim 'this is a no-brainer' are effectively saying there is no 'decision' it is an automatic action. Easier to automate out flight crew when everything is 'no brainer' - like maintain pitch and power (another no brainer action proposed in other threads).

harrogate 3rd Aug 2016 12:56


Originally Posted by Bonzo777 (Post 9460626)
Several pax running with their carry on baggage cases!! When will they ever learn?

Not sure learning curve is possible, working on the assumption it's probably not the same pax involved in every crash.

Maybe given they just survived a plane crash some are in shock and aren't really in the clearest, most logical state of mind.

marcoalza 3rd Aug 2016 12:59

Good point hg.
Hopefully I'll never experience that state of mind...

asdf1234 3rd Aug 2016 13:04

Pax reaching for the overhead locker
 
Any pax between me and the exit seen reaching for their luggage in the bins, putting my life at risk, gets punched by me, repeatedly if needs be.

All pax photographed with their hand luggage need to be arrested for disobeying the lawful instruction of the flight crew.

I'm only glad that there were no pax or crew fatalities but one day people will die because ignorant pax deem their hand luggage more important than a human life.

Time to introduce locking overhead bins. Only accessible when the the seatbelt sign has been turned off. Simples!

Wirbelsturm 3rd Aug 2016 13:08


B773 performance struggles at that those conditions.
Not so sure I agree with that statement. Perhaps a heavy 773 with a single engine failure would struggle in those conditions with it's climb out limit but both engines, at the end of the flight with minimal fuel? The climb performance would be more than adequate. The QRH puts the landing climb limit weight with F20 (landing F30, go around F20) for 49 degrees at about 300 tonnes giving approx 50 tonnes over MLW.

The difficulty is separating the 'training scenario' that we all get in the sim of majority single engine go arounds with the real life scenario where a go around will often be conducted with both donks operating.

Personally, excluding the possibility of severe windshear, I don't think aircraft performance will have been an issue but that is hypothesis on my part and therefore speculation.

etrang 3rd Aug 2016 13:08

The only thing more foolish that trying to get your luggage off a crashed plane, asdf, is starting a fight in the middle of an evacuation.

And locking overhead bins would only make the situation worse as pax try and figure out why they wont open. There is a simple solution however, don't let pax take any luggage into the cabin in the first place.

asdf1234 3rd Aug 2016 13:11


Originally Posted by etrang (Post 9460703)
The only thing more foolish that trying to get your luggage off a crashed plane, asdf, is starting a fight in the middle of an evacuation.

I'm not fighting them, i'm punching them to the ground in order to save my life.

flyonthewall 3rd Aug 2016 13:17

Could it be that on the initial heavy touchdown something came adrift and power was not available from the no:2 engine? That plus a hot day, tailwind and an old straight 300 (not a great performer on a good day), may explain the alleged 'sinking back onto the runway' theory. Pure speculation of course...

Super VC-10 3rd Aug 2016 13:18


If they had a problem configuring, they would have aborted the approach.

If they knew in advance, they never would have been allowed to land at DXB.
B:mad:T!

If the captain of an aircraft has an in-flight emergency and decides that an airport is the most appropriate place to go to, he will go there. The airport authorities don't get a say in the matter, even though they may wish he went to the next airport. Subsequent disruption is not a factor in deciding where to go.

Wirbelsturm 3rd Aug 2016 13:23

F20 Gear down landing rate of climb for 225T at 49 degrees gives you approx 390fpm climb at sea level.

Things get interesting if you forget to go from F30 to F20 in the Go-Around.

F30 Gear down landing rate of climb at 225T at 49 degrees gives you approx minus 190fpm at sea level!

Note, all these figures are for SINGLE ENGINE.

Performance with both engines even at 49 degrees is not an issue.


No airport will tell you you can't land with an emergency. They may 'suggest' other options but, as Captain, it's your choice.

Edited to add that these are for the 777-300 GE115. My operator doesn't have the straight 300 so willing to be corrected. :D

Ranger One 3rd Aug 2016 13:25


Originally Posted by asdf1234 (Post 9460696)
Time to introduce locking overhead bins. Only accessible when the the seatbelt sign has been turned off. Simples!

Great idea - until someone's laptop lithium battery goes into runaway and the locking system fails in the 'locked' mode... :ugh:

Infieldg 3rd Aug 2016 13:26


Originally Posted by log0008 (Post 9460507)
and why should you attempt to land?

Cos they were already on fire? :) I do wish someone would clarify the 'near miss' report tho, if cutting the wingtip off in flight and starting a fire qualifies as a near miss then that'd do it :) Mind you given the near miss between two unrelated planes in India , the originating country of this flight, perhaps the media is mis-attributing an entirely different incident.

Oh my God who is this pink faced bearded bespeckled buffoon on Al Jazeera right now, he looks like the lights are triggering his fight-or-flight response but sadly he opted for the former and didn't leave the studio, so merely opined that something ... probably ... went ... wrong.... is it so unreasonable to expect that someone called upon to give "expert" testimony following a life threatening emergency would have the internet?


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