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Once these guys have settled their case in Scotland they will presumably have to face the music with Transport Canada.
I see an eight hour rule in the Canadian regs and the requirement that you are not under the influence of alcohol or drugs when you fly as a pilot. But, is there a stated BAC percentage as with driving in Canada? |
From a quick search on the TC website:
.... many pilots in Canada may have misconceptions about Canadian Aviation Regulation (CAR) 602.03, the rule that addresses the consumption of alcohol. Here it is: 602.03 No person shall act as a crew member of an aircraft within eight hours after consuming an alcoholic beverage; while under the influence of alcohol; or while using any drug that impairs the person's faculties to the extent that the safety of the aircraft or of the persons on board the aircraft is endangered in any way. We often refer to this as the "8 hours from bottle to throttle" rule, but if we look at it closely, we see that it is a three-part regulation. What some may be overlooking is the second part that states, "No person shall act as a crew member of an aircraft (b) while under the influence of alcohol." Transport Canada has no tolerance on this rule if you are found with any trace of alcohol in your system. The regulation can actually be misleading; one rule states that you are allowed to drink eight hours before a flight, while the other says you better not get caught with any trace of alcohol in your system even if it has been eight hours since your last drink. That's a 2005 document, but i doubt TC have softened their stance ... it sounds like "zero" is the position in that extract. |
To my understanding there has never been a legal test of the TC definition of "under the influence". I suspect that if such a test were ever explored, the court would find the regulation vague to the point of being unenforceable without a specific BAC value attached.
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It's largely irrelevant what the TC rules are when operating out of the UK.
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They also may come out of this with a criminal conviction, which come with various issues of their own in this industry
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Is this the first case involving "an impaired pilot due to alcohol" to be brought before a Scottish Court?
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It's largely irrelevant what the TC rules are when operating out of the UK. |
Originally Posted by 212man
(Post 9454766)
It's largely irrelevant what the TC rules are when operating out of the UK.
Even if they are acquitted of all charges like the American Airlines pilot at Manchester (see: Cleared: The pilot who claimed he got drunk in his sleep | Daily Mail Online) I'm thinking that they will still have issues to face with the federales in Canada. |
It's interesting that the pilots' actual blood / breath / urine alcohol readings have apparently not been made public as part of the charges. If they are indeed in excess of the UK legally prescribed limits (and presumably are), then both may be looking at up to 2 years imprisonment and /or a hefty fine. That is before TC throws the CDN book at them.
The news releases also state that both have now been suspended and have surrendered their passports. If this is suspension-without-pay (as a result of being formally charged by the authorities) they may be in for a very long haul. Such cases can take months to prepare / try in open Court, especially if a not-guilty plea is entered. Such charges are almost impossible to beat, unless there is a 'technicality' such as the testing method used or reliability of the equipment utilised on that particular day. It's going to be a long, slow and ultimately very costly experience for them both. (On the upside, with their Air Transat experience, they'll be well-used to gross-overcrowding, lousy food and inhumane treatment commonly found in H.M. Prisons. :E) |
Originally Posted by Duchess_Driver
(Post 9454965)
Funny, I always thought it didn't matter where in the world I was operating, I was always bound by the laws of the state of licence issue AS WELL AS the state in which I was flying - whichever being more restrictive being applied.....
And sometimes the charges overseas follow you home, sometimes they don't. A famous Air Transat A330 glider pilot did hard time in a Georgia prison for airborne drug smuggling a while back but he's still flying in the left seat there. Similarly, a colleague of mine did hard time in Mexico for drug smuggling but since it wasn't a U.S. felony conviction, he's good to go with both his FAA ATP license and Class I medical certificate. |
@ Airbubba... A famous Air Transat A330 glider pilot did hard time in a Georgia prison for airborne drug smuggling a while back but he's still flying in the left seat there. |
Originally Posted by Jet Jockey A4
(Post 9455313)
I believe the drug smuggling glider pilot you refer to is now retired from Air Transat, to put it in a nice way. :-)
He still flies the A330 out of Montreal. But, if he was 49 in 2001, he must be right at retirement. Also, from the CTV article, he snagged a record from Air Canada by one minute: His 18-minute glide broke the world record set in 1983 after Air Canada’s “Gimli Glider” ran out of fuel 17 minutes before a miraculous landing in Gimli, Man. |
Quote: Originally Posted by 212man View Post It's largely irrelevant what the TC rules are when operating out of the UK. You mean to tell me that Canadian pilots with Canadian licenses and Canadian medical certificates flying a Canadian registered aircraft to Canada for a Canadian airline don't have to worry about Transport Canada alcohol rules? Even if they are acquitted of all charges like the American Airlines pilot at Manchester (see: Cleared: The pilot who claimed he got drunk in his sleep | Daily Mail Online) I'm thinking that they will still have issues to face with the federales in Canada. |
The "under the influence" part is there to cover a bender ending more than eight hours before duty but from which the sixteen pints you drank are still still affecting you.
No shortage of people caught drink driving on their way to work in the morning after a party the night before. |
You are only tried and tested by the rules and laws of the country that you are arrested in, unless your home country has requested it by which you will be extradited for trial.
If they are found guilty, then there will be other rules and terms and conditions to worry about. I know in my company should I do anything such as this and get the media attention, then I would be sacked for bringing the company into disrepute, they wouldn't even get to contravening the rules of exercising my license. Look at it from a different angle, if a UK based pilot was caught at Glasgow who was about to fly to another country (say Canada), the next time they go to Canada, should they be arrested and tried there too? |
99% of countries are happy that you are charged somewhere else - saves them a load of cash and trouble (imagine having to arrange the evidence of the arresting officers in Glasgow having to be given in say Calgary....)
Murder and child abuse are probably the only ones they'd chase for you at home as well |
Originally Posted by EGQL1964
(Post 9444579)
Paisley Sheriff Court, what a rapid descent.
Certainly, lots of drunks will have been there before them. As a born and bred Paisley man, I have to take offence at your highly accurate assertion :E |
Originally Posted by 5milesbaby
(Post 9460280)
Look at it from a different angle, if a UK based pilot was caught at Glasgow who was about to fly to another country (say Canada), the next time they go to Canada, should they be arrested and tried there too?
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flydive1, I think you have missed the point I was making.
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Extremly obviously they lost their medical certificates.
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