Fire fighting plane disappeared in Siberia
 

According to latest Swedish news:

Flygplan försvunnet i Ryssland - DN.SE

My translation:

The plane had taken off during the night, and was around 3000 metres [I think, about 9000 feet] in the Irkutsk area when it disappeared.

Ilyushin Il-76 modified for waterbombing, by the look of it:

https://www.rt.com/news/349088-firef...-lost-siberia/

Link includes an impressive video of it in action.

I thought it was supposed to be super-dangerous to be bombed with water... at least that's what media told us when we brought in planes from abroad for a forest fire.

That might be exciting.

It was RA-76840 from MChS (EMERCOM) fleet. Lost in mountainous area (heights from 600 to 1000 m). Last known position is at 3000ft. Water drop height is ~50-500 m. There are no official information yet but it was second drop down this day. Be-200 which also works in the area meets Il-76 on the way back to refill. Believed that Il-76 done second water drop and then not report to tower.

Crew missed:

1. Fillin (Captain)
2. Lebedev (2 Officer)
3. Petrov (Navigator)
4. Kuznetsov (Flight engineer)
5. Murachin (Radio operator)
6-8. Makarov Suslov Hadaev (Eqiupment operators)
9-10. Jdanov Mashinov (Flight technician)

It is.

.......

That's a lot of people to operate a water bomber me thinks...

It is! :=

Our firefighting ops involve working with the AT802s who normally drop three tonnes of water at about 100+(?) knots or thereabouts ..... We know that this is enough to knock anyone in the path to the ground with potential for additional injury, break branches off trees, dent vehicles and cause significant damage to any buildings which score a direct hit. The drops are co-ordinated to make sure that personnel and appliances are well clear of the drop zone.

In the video, it's possible that up to forty plus tonnes is coming at you at a speed much faster than propeller driven A/C (perhaps even 250kt?). The energy being unleashed here is frightening. No way in the world would I be holding the camera or giving the commentary for this sequence. Nor would I be allowed to. :(:eek:

We can safely assume that the demonstration fire in this sequence was extinguished. I will forever wonder about the people who placed themselves right in the drop zone ....

FOR

Well, its Russian. 5 man cockpit and all that. One to operate the radios, one to operate a dinner-plate size ADF and one to start and operate the engines to save the Captain the hassle. Manned like a 1940s warship.

Crikey! Even my Bunnings umbrella wouldn't have survived that! :eek:

[OFFTOPIC]


FOR, it for sure is. Look at this video, it's Be-200, so it's half the amount of water but still: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BzGPTuAGqo.

This is very good video about operations of firefifgter based on Il-76TD: https://youtu.be/89vm_Q_8SlQ

Hi again Kulverstukas! Thanks for the videos.

I have always thought the Be200 is an amazing waterbomber and I don't know the politics of everything so I am just bewildered that this plane isn't more common.

An operator in the U.S. has been trying to get BE200's into the U.S. for the last several years. One toured the states a couple years ago for several operators to eval. The U.S. Forest Service Also went to Russia to evaluate the tanker (it passed the tests). Last I hear they may try to manufacture them in the U.S. under license, that makes no dam sense so it must be an FAA certifying issue. Now with the current administrations inability to foster any kind of foreign relations it's even less likely to happen.

Today in the early morning (02:00AM MSK) Mi-8 on the route to the new spot of forest fire with ground firefighters crew onboard spotted crash place. Plane destroyed, nobody survived. Bodies and flight recorder reported found. Presumably, plane catches hot air into engines at climb after waterbombing and failed to avoid trees at the hill slope (900m, +225m from valley level). :(

https://phototass2.cdnvideo.ru/fit/1...03/4284009.jpg

https://cdn1.tass.ru/fit/1000x1000_a...03/4284012.jpg

(c) TASS

IRKUTSK, July 3. /TASS/. Rescuers have found body fragments of the crew and one flight recorder at the Il-76 crash site in Irkutsk region, the rescuers told TASS on Sunday.

"During the search at the crash site in the Irkutsk region, the rescuers found body fragments of the victims and one of the two flight recorders," the source said.

The search is under way.

"Judging from the scale of crash, all the ten people of the crew have died," the source said.

For the moment rescuers have found four bodies.

Earlier on Sunday, reports said rescuers found the missing fire-fighting Il-76 plane four kilometers south of the Rybny Yan settlement on the slope of a hill.

On July1, the Il-76 plane did not go on the air for a radio contact at a due time. The communication was lost as the plane was at the height of 3,000 meters. The plane was equipped with an airborne spray tank for fighting wildfires in the Irkutsk region. On board the plane was only the crew of 10 people.


More:
TASS: Society & Culture - Rescuers find body fragments of crew, one flight recorder at Il-76 crash site

The IL-76 has had a fatal crash nearly every year for the last 20 years. A/C itself seems robust though.

Sad to hear of this latest.

I think you may find the same for a few western types too!

A tragedy for all involved. My profound sympathies to the colleagues and families of those who perished. We all know that firefighting is a dangerous business, but any loss of life when it happens, sends a shock wave of emotion through all who do battle with the red enemy - especially when this number of brave souls are lost in a single event.

FOR

Along with An-12 if we talk about Soviet types. But them fly in dangerous conditions, frequently without any ground aids like ILS etc., lot of them are flown by poor educated crews (in Asia and Africa), with poor or totally absent maintenance.

However last case is sad example of first.

At 16:30MSK 6 bodies found and both flight recorders are rescued.

looks like CFIT in smoky skies. 10 crew RIP
http://www.jacdec.de/WP/wp-content/u...a_TITLE1-1.png
Jacdec report

It is not really wildland, dozens of small villages are elsewhere if with very poor road system. Also there is couple of large cities in vicinity and smoke from wildfires makes breathing there difficult and at +30C life is hell.

It's MAK case so updates and final report will be available at The Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC) - official website

Thanks again Kulverstukas. Please update us when more info is available.

cappt
Yes, with the current political situation I'm guessing that's why the Be200 isn't more used. Very sad though - she seems like a very capable aircraft. Interesting that she passed the US tests too!

I really hope all this political gibberish dials down a few notches, trade is sooo much more interesting than armed conflict. I mean, Russia would make great impressions in the fire fighting business, SAVING lives, instead of threatening us tiny Nordic countries with non-transponder Tu95-s doing flybys across CPH and RISKING lives.

The IL-76 is a magnificient beast too. Maybe a bit complicated to fly, apparently, but isn't she one of the planes that actually can land at Antarctica?

Both Be-200 and Il-76 now has 2-crew version with glass cockpits, also you can buy Il-76 with more modern PS-90 engines instead of D-30.

PS: @MrSnuggles - also since yesterday Russian planes will flew WITH transponders ON. So the ball is on the NATO side of the field now. ;)

Wow the il-76 is still being produced? Amazing

About two per year since 2003 and about dozen now in different stages of production. It's not taking into account planes which are restored/modernized from storage.

04 july 2016
CVR and FDR of Il-76TD RA-76840 was delivered to IAC lab. Both was damaged in fire. After opening it was found that tape from MARS CVR is in satisfactory condition and solid memory in MSRP 64M-5 FDR is in good condition. Both was read and copied to safe media. Preliminary analysis shows that both records has information about accident. Deciphering and analyzing is under way.

http://mak-iac.org/upload/resize_cac..._200_0/CVR.jpg http://mak-iac.org/upload/resize_cac..._200_0/FDR.JPG

UPD: source from IAC investigation team told today that "till the last second there was routine communication in the cockpit, seems crew was unaware about dangerous a/c position"

14 july 2016


The Interstate Aviation Committee informs about contiтuation of the activities on investigation of the accident with Il-76ТD RA-76840 aircraft.
Activities on making up the crew speech extract with identification of users by the airline air staff are being completed.
Activities on the aircraft flight path recovery and evaluation of aircraft systems and engines operability according to flight recorders data are in progress.
Subcommissions and task teams carry out the analysis of crew level of training, compliance with aeronautical equipment regulations, meteorological conditions and the procedure of emergency flight management and execution using all avaliable information (flight and maintenance documentation, meteodocumentation, etc.).
The Commission continues its work.

Thanks for the updates Kulverstukas.

05 august 2016

The Interstate Aviation Committee informs about the continuation of the work of the Commission for the investigation of an aircraft accident Ilyushin Il-76td aircraft RA-76840 EMERCOM of Russia.


On the site of IAC published an interim report (advance information) about the investigation.


Interim report (advance information) issued in accordance with section 2.4.12 rules of investigation of accidents and incidents involving civilian aircraft in the Russian Federation and clause 7.4 of annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation (ICAO). The report contains information received at this point in the Commission to investigate the facts.


The Commission continues to work on the collection and analysis of information on the training of the crew, his assessment and emotional condition and action in an emergency flight, as well as the health of units and systems of aircraft.


Upon completion of the Commission of inquiry will be prepared the final report.

The information presented in the interim report, the information is provisional and can be updated and supplemented by the results of research.


Attached documents:


Interim Report RA-76840.pdf (1.54 MB)

At the 36th minute of the flight Cpt instructed the crew to set QNH=1007 hPa and began to descend.

At 3:03:35 (45 minute of the flight) was performed right turn MK = 342° in order to get to "reserve" fire (up to 3:04:40 flight was performed in automatic control mode, then automatic height stabilization was disabled and from 3:07:10 flight was in manual height mode). Sine then flight was performed on Hg = 200-100 m, the crew reports that ground visibility was only "directly under" or none. From 3:06:27 (48 minute of the flight) and to the end of CVR/FDR recording (55 minute of the flight) for ~ 7 minutes, repeatedly recorded height warning "PUSH UP" and "GROUND AHEAD"
...

At 3:11:52 (Navigator report at 03:12 of the target range 5 km) Cpt decided on further descend, flight parameters recorded were: V = 345 km/h, MK = 190° Hb = 1000 m, Hg = 210 m, max height of the hill, located directly on the flight path at a distance of ~ 5 km, was 945 m.


At 3:12:24 navigator informed of the target distance of 3.5 km, Cpt continued descend.

:(