Yes that's the smoking gun the seat belt sign was not on this opens up a can of worms

Why? That all depends if the turbulence was expected. No reason to be paranoid like the Americans and leave the seat belt sign on for the duration of the flight. That's even more counter productive. Most carriers clearly state that "turbulence can occur at any time and seat belts should be fastened when in your seat even if the seat belt sign is switched off".

Clearly the crux of the problem.

So where's the solution?

One can not expect the uninformed and ignorant passengers to solve such a problem on their own.

Is there a reasonable chance that some will respond to video screen showing passengers bouncing off ceilings during a quiet time while dozing?

Or should the extra attention be for the crew to anticipate high risk encounters over a portion of the flight?

Stronger cabin ceilings.
:E
And much more padding material.

I think one would be more than a little miffed if a 120kg unrestrained blob landed on one's little kid :*

This needs reconciling.

At 54 seconds into the video, the purser announced in English " we have just landed at Jakarta, please keep your seat belts fastened"

It is not a video of the incident, but of the touchdown, beyond any doubt.

No it doesn't. In my operation we instruct the pax to keep their seatbelts on whenever seated, regardless of the seatbelt sign. Only idiots undo it while seated.

If the seatbelt sign was on all the time, there would be no cabin service and no visits to the loo.

Why is Prune currently strangling my browser?

Not arguing with you but are the seat belts signs on?

Ahh good, a turbulence video, this gives us pilots a chance to learn about avoiding...ahh sod that lets just blame the pax.

I never understand the lack of empathy for people who get seriously hurt in turbulence. Firstly as most people (surveys say 70% or so) are nervous about flying, such an experience would be utterly terrifying. Then, whatever time of flight, there will always be some
Pax up for bathroom etc. This was near top of descent, normally more are up then doing last bathrooms breaks.

Furthermore, on some airlines, they seem to keep the belt sign on the entire flight, whatever the conditions. This is why pax dont take it seriously. Obviously they have to get up some time (i believe the in flight magazine tells us to move around to avoid dvt).

Lastly, i would love to know how many of the seat belt fanatics wear a belt in taxis/buses. given that people are constantly told flying is the safest form of travel, and given no clear warning why they should keep their belt on (if you want oax to wear it show them what happens in CAT, most people have bo idea!) of course they dont wear it. And of course a pilot even takes it off if he's flying non-rev and needs the facilities near TOD.

People got hurt, it's the pilots job to avoid that if at all possible. As humans i'd hope your first instinct would-be sympathy.

'Only idiots'? Oh to be as superior as you. I'm sure a good few of these people were just going to the toilet, is sympathy so hard?

As I'm sure you're aware in plenty of countries people don't wear seatbelts for road transport. hell even in the UK people don't in cabs. Airlines give a generic recommendation to keep your belt fastened, but do not make the threat at all clear, just a line about 'in case if unexpected turbulence'. People think that just means a few bumps. If you want people to take it seriously, then state 'turbulence can cause objects including pax to be flung around the cabin and potentially break their neck'. Then you might get their attention.

People are told flying is so much safer than any other transport (actually a total misuse of statistics - per journey it is not so safe at all - and then insurers use the real risk rather than the marketing), but then some in the industry seem to expect them to behave as if they are in constant danger as long as they're in a plane. People treat it the same as being a passenger in any other form of transport, which invariably doesn't even have a seatbelt, so of course a lot of people don't see why flyig along in a smooth cruise they should be worried. People want to enjoy the ride as they would a bus or train. Airlines could tell them why it is so important, but they obviously think telling already nervous people about CAT isn't great for their image.

Turbulance action plan
 

I can see a clear action plan here. Only pax with ICAO approved catheters and ankle bags, together with installed stoma apparatus should be allowed to fly.

That will completely remove the need for lavatory visits, and extra seats can be installed on LoCos. Seat belts can then be compulsory throughout the flight for this new cohort of safe pax.

Other than that, there is no solution to rare and unexpected heavy turbulence.

Praying in the aisles is clearly counterproductive and should be banned.

As for the Indonesian pilgrims rejoicing in the video on landing at Soekarno-Hatta, try an Alitalia plane at Leonardo da Vinci for comparision. Is "God is great" or clapping to "Holy Mary, mother of God" preferable?

If you are going to quote me, please do it properly. I said "Only idiots undo it while seated." I have no problem with somebody going to the loo or stretching their legs. If you are seated and you don't have your belt on, you are an idiot.

Ours do: "in case of unexpected turbulence". If that frightens people, they need to toughen up.

I have travelled on two other large ME carriers and I am always amazed at the lack of respect given to the seatbelt sign, crew constantly walking around, people still get up and open their lockers or go to the toilet and I've never seen crew stop them unless it is during taxi out or just before landing.

The lack of seat belt discipline compared to the airline I fly for truly is astonishing.

NOT EVEN ON TAXI
 

Ozsync,

In the ME and Asia, to my vast experience as a pax in both regions over the past decade and a half, the cabin team will only intervene when pax unbelt and stand up during the taxi after landing if some idiot like me yells, "Sit down you mob!".

Even that did not work yesterday on the Doha/Dubai flight. We stopped momentarily well away from the gate and before we did the last 90 degree turn on to the gate. 80% - I kid you not - of the economy cabin were on their feet and opening lockers. After 14 hours Montreal/Doha and a messy transit (bloody security idiots again) and knowing full well I was going to miss Happy Hours(s) at the Shang I was in a foul mood so I said a little more than usual.

Totally ignored!! It was like speaking logically to a well known Australian aviation expert.

Oh, and I agree with Blogs: seated pax with seat belts undone are idiots and probably have an IQ less than the midday temperature in Montreal last week.


Plan A is to make up for the lost HH yesterday when I go to the 41st floor this afternoon.

If you are going to quote me please do it properly. I actually said '
Airlines give a generic recommendation to keep your belt fastened, but do not make the threat at all clear, just a line about 'in case of unexpected turbulence'. People think that just means a few bumps'.

Most people don't fly often and have no idea how bad turbulence can be. Airlines choose not to tell them, and frankly, people seee cabin crew carrying out service and not surprisingly make the assumption all is OK. I imagine when crew are told to sit down most people strap up, I would agree anyone who doesn't then is an idiot.

As someone noted, planes will hit turbulence, people will get hurt. If it's a big plane long haul crew could be 20+ people, so it is easy to get a lot of people injures with only a few pax moving around. Likely most injured pax were up for perfectly good reason.

Speaking as a regular flyer, passenger - it seems to me many passengers don't see or hear anything, live in their own little worlds are are both ignorant and pretty stupid.

I really have to tune out otherwise I'd soon be arrested for causing actual bodily harm on some of my fellow travellers.

On one of our flts a female pax out of BAH decided to undo her seat belt. After crew had done a check after signs were put on.
The aircraft entered the rough bit. This person got launched into the ceiling & back down onto the arm rest. Broke her pelvis. Apparently their was no truth to the rumour that one of the cabin crew told her. Serves you bl*** well right.

Really there needs to be more education on use of seat belts but I guess you will always get one or two who know better & have the attitude. "You can't tell me what to do"

Load Toad, I know what you mean. What infuriates me even more though are dead-heading crew seated in the cabin talking incessantly through the safety briefing! Bad manners and not a good example to the pax around them. Seen it quite a few times in my 50 plus years as pax, including British and American crew (which makes it even worse for me).

I've been on said airline before and people have been getting up & opening lockers while reverse thrust was still rumbling on! Not a peep from the cabin crew. :ugh: