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-   -   Possible Boeing 777 Part Found Off Mozambique (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/575566-possible-boeing-777-part-found-off-mozambique.html)

skippybangkok 3rd Mar 2016 15:43


Originally Posted by CONSO (Post 9287929)
For those who wonder what the VS stands for - the answer is VOI-SHAN a long time supplier of aerospace standard fasteners.

The HL1013- 6 means simply a 6AL-4V TITANIUM FASTENER 6/32 DIA ( 3/16 )

Thousands of those in 3/16 to 3/8 diameter have been used on most every model and manufacturer of airplanes or missiles for decades. They are batch inspected and certified, and carry NO serial or batch number.

I mention this only to tamp down the ' can we trace that fastener to a particular part or airplane or location ?"


The answer is NO (absent ID of surrounding part(s) )- :8
(s).

Answer is "maybe"

Each metal batch is close but not identical. Analysis of trace elements can be compared to fasteners coming from same batch - assuming a sister plane used them and one can be removed for comparison

dn88 3rd Mar 2016 15:50


Originally Posted by andrasz (Post 9288128)
A good photo showing the T7 HS upper surface with the location of the NO STEP labels:

Photos: Boeing 777-31H/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

I happen to be that photographer.

Here is a full resolution shot of the stab only.

http://s11.postimg.org/7ko677u2r/777_HS.jpg

P.S. No copying/distributing without my permission, thanks! Contact via PM if necessary.

_Phoenix 3rd Mar 2016 15:55


Answer is "maybe"
Completely agree. If it would be an HL1023-6, an oversized used for repairs/reworks, that would be a "finger print" of an RNC that could be linked to a unique tail number.

CONSO 3rd Mar 2016 17:47

re hi lok tracing
 

Originally Posted by skippybangkok (Post 9291955)
Answer is "maybe"

Each metal batch is close but not identical. Analysis of trace elements can be compared to fasteners coming from same batch - assuming a sister plane used them and one can be removed for comparison

Sorry charlie - you need to understand how such fasteners are produced - stored and disbursed. They are ordered months/years in advance of use. They are produced and shipped perhaps on a monthly basis and put into ' temporary' storage by the boxfull. A given production shipment to Boeing of that same fastener could be split into two or three or four batches- at boeing that would be 737, 747, 767, 777 for example since some are used on every model- and part of the supplier production batch might be shipped to one of a " half" dozen suppliers just for Boeing. Other parts of that supplier production batch may well be shipped to St louis, lockheed, Airbus, etc.

But after splittting the " Boeing batch "and being sent to renton or everett or part of the batch being sent to a supplier(s) they are temporairly stored in the closest plant/assembly area before being daily put into ' nearby' to assembly rotobins- replenished at least daily or every other day dependinng on parts, assembly, production rates, etc. Some of the same fasteners in that rotobin ( for example at the ' bottom ' ) may well be three to six months old for a given model.

So a chem/sprectro analysis may well show ' family brother" fasteners of that size- batch on most any part of any plane going back from weeks to months just at Boeing- and possibly any other aerospace company in the world.
IOW- as I first stated, absent a unique flaw in that fastener or out of tolerance composition, tracing that fastener to a ' sister' ship has a VERY low but not quite ZERO probibility of being useful.:ugh:

Chronus 3rd Mar 2016 19:22

Assuming this latest find is also from MH370, hard to imagine both bits ascended
from 15,000` or so depths. More likely these separated on impact with water. On such a premise there must be other debris afloat. What are the chances that just these two bits came off and the rest went down all in one piece. Perhaps time to call it a day, get heads out of the water, stick specs back on and start using eyeball MK1.

Teddy Robinson 3rd Mar 2016 19:23

Further to my previous
 
with thanks to dn88 and the caveat "IF THIS IS FROM A 777"
after scaling to the 35 foot semi span of the HS, the recovered item appears to match a position immediately adjacent to the fuselage.

TR

Band a Lot 3rd Mar 2016 20:55

Not sure of final paint process but is it possible to match the flaperon with this section via the paint?

deanm 3rd Mar 2016 21:11

Good call, Bandy.
In another life, I used to be a State Govt. forensic scientist.
Paint matching is absolutely routine.
Examples include paint fragments recovered from a suspect's clothes with that from crime scene window frames or sills, paint particles identified in car collisions (with buildings, other vehicles, victims of hit-&-runs) etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-spectrophotometry

Should be entirely possible.
Dean

(Of course, the flaperon and wing may have been painted at different times or locations, but the paint batches involved should be traceable - they would paint a whole bunch of flaperons at the same time with the same spectroscopically-identifiable batch)

MrSnuggles 3rd Mar 2016 22:00

Couldn't we compare it to pics of the MH17?

Good zoom up here:

http://s52.radikal.ru/i138/1407/df/6f1e4e04c96f.jpg

and here:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...10390fb312.jpg

overview:

http://s019.radikal.ru/i641/1407/f6/4b8bb5407361.jpg


All these pictures originates from Jeroen Akkermans wealth of photograpic information on Flickr.

deanm 3rd Mar 2016 22:05

Snuggy - there seems to be a consensus emerging that Teddy & NiclasB have (in the words of another) 'nailed it' (if you are referring to the airframe location of the 'NO STEP' debris).

Dean

MrSnuggles 3rd Mar 2016 22:13

deanm

That might very well be the case. I just wanted to give new ideas into the mix.

The found part is apparently compared to an Ethiopian airframe - are we sure the markings are the same across all airframes? Same font?

Just wanted to show how a very definitively Malaysian B777 was marked. For future reference if nothing else.

deanm 3rd Mar 2016 22:30


Originally Posted by MrSnuggles (Post 9292839)
deanm

That might very well be the case. I just wanted to give new ideas into the mix.

The found part is apparently compared to an Ethiopian airframe - are we sure the markings are the same across all airframes? Same font?

Just wanted to show how a very definitively Malaysian B777 was marked. For future reference if nothing else.

Understood, Snuggy: without discussion of 'new ideas', we are stuck with only 'old ideas'!

Dean

PPRuNe Towers 3rd Mar 2016 23:59

The thread can reopen when there's some actual news

Rob


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