Saudi F-16s in Turkey and what next
 

Long story short. Turkey says it and Saudi Arabia could launch an anti-ISIS ground campaign in Syria. Turkish FM confirms presence of Saudi troops, F-15s at Turkish military base.

Regardless to the political agenda, we all could agree that there will be absolutely no no-fly zones or close airspace from Turkey prior to action.
And we all understand potential risks that will follow.

So, the question is, do MH-17 report recommendations created some sort of warning or rerouting procedures already?

Saudi F16s eh?:hmm:

The RSAF is not equipped with F16 .

They probably mean F15's

Eagles yupp, hope turkish ATCs are a bit more responsible than ukrainian...so expect closing airspace for commercial traffic if SHTF

Yes, they have only f 15, my bad.

P. S.

Military pilots detected )

And Typhoon, and Tornado...

-RP

It has been pointed out that Saudi is not officially part of Nato, and thus Russian S400 operators may not feel motivated to exceptional restraint. And Russian aviators may still be carrying a grudge towards fighters operating out of Turkey

I don't think this topic really belongs here, but maybe someone should close civilian airspace above this mess before there is a repeat of the Ukraine incident.

A combat environment with multiple state actors with benzedrine-fueled military pilots flying live weapons, and the latest anti-aircraft tech, does not mix well with the quiet world of civil aviation which we all love. US, Russia, Uk, France, Syria, Turkey, Israel and now Saudi now all have fast jets operating within a few miles of each other, with live weapons, multiple aircraft carriers are in the region, and Russia has one of the most powerful ground to air systems emplaced. This is not a military parade for show, it is a tinderbox.

And besides, closing down air transport in the zone might make the various local VIPs realize that their actions threaten their own families as much as the hoi polloi.

Edmund

"Confirmed" that there are now 20 RSAF F15s in Incirlik, TR.

Not really happy with risking my fairly pleasant lifestyle to help out over there....sometimes you just need to sit back and let these things run their course...some people are just destined to fight each other

#itsnotourfight

Why is it that Saudi Arabia shows up just as Obama/Kerry announce a temporary cease-fire?

we spend 50 years complaining about countries taking a free ride from the US, France & NATO and not putting their money and armed forces where their mouths were

Now they are doing that and protecting their own "national Interests" we're getting all upset....

weird :confused::confused::confused:

yes Harry...nail-on-head, besides the opportunity to see if some of these weapons systems really work as advertised

It appears that the situation is indeed ramping up.
Syria: Turkey and Saudi Arabia consider ground campaign following border strikes | World news | The Guardian
Syria: Turkey and Saudi Arabia consider ground campaign following border strikes
Suggestion that Ankara could take part in ground assault comes as Turkish strikes hit Kurdish positions and responded to regime fire
Turkish prime minister issues stark warning to Kurdish militia

Agence-France Presse

Sunday 14 February 2016 08.05 GMT Last modified on Sunday 14 February 2016 12.15 GMT
The Turkish military has hit Kurdish and Syrian regime targets as Ankara considered a ground assault with Saudi troops, further complicating efforts to end the war just days after the US and Russia agreed on a “cessation of hostilities” in Syria within a week.


State-run news agency Anatolia said the armed forces shelled Syrian Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD) targets around the town of Azaz, and also responded to regime fire on a Turkish military guard post in Turkey’s southern Hatay region.

Russia’s grip on Syria tightens as brittle ceasefire deal leaves US out in the cold

There were no further details on the nature of the Turkish strikes, which triggered alarm in Washington, but they probably involved artillery fire from tanks.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Minnigh airbase, recently taken by the Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG) militia from Islamist rebels, was hit in the Turkish shelling.

Ankara considers the PYD and its YPG militia to be branches of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) which has waged a decades-long insurgency against the Turkish state.

Saturday’s shelling came shortly after the Turkish prime minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, said Ankara would, if necessary, take military action against the PYD.

“We can if necessary take the same measures in Syria as we took in Iraq and Qandil,” he said in a televised speech, referring to Turkey’s bombing campaign last year against PKK targets in their Qandil mountain stronghold in northern Iraq.

Also in the Aleppo region, which has taken centre stage in the conflict, US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces, an alliance of Kurdish and Arab fighters, launched a two-pronged attack on Tal Rifaat, one of the remaining rebel bastions north of Aleppo city, the Observatory said.

It said Tal Rifaat also came under attack in at least 20 Russian air strikes on Saturday.

The US State Department said it was concerned about the situation north of Aleppo, was working to “de-escalate tensions on all sides” and urged Turkey to halt its strikes.

“We have urged Syrian Kurdish and other forces affiliated with the YPG not to take advantage of a confused situation by seizing new territory,” US State Department spokesman John Kirby said in a statement.

“We have also seen reports of artillery fire from the Turkish side of the border and urged Turkey to cease such fires.”

With the conflict directly drawing in more international players, Turkey’s foreign minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, quoted in Turkish newspapers, said Riyadh and Ankara were coordinating plans to intervene in Syria, where Russia has been backing a successful regime offensive against rebels.

“If there is a strategy (against the Islamic State jihadist group), then Turkey and Saudi Arabia could enter into a ground operation,” he said.

Cavusoglu said Saudi Arabia is also sending planes to the Turkish base of Incirlik, a key hub for US-led coalition operations against IS already used by Britain, France and the United States for cross-border air raids.

Turkish media later quoted military sources as saying between eight and 10 Saudi jets would be deployed in Incirlik within the coming weeks, with four F-16 fighters to arrive in a first wave.

Asked if Saudi Arabia could send troops to the Turkish border to enter Syria, Cavusoglu said: “This is something that could be desired but there is no plan. Saudi Arabia is sending planes and they said ’If the necessary time comes for a ground operation then we could send soldiers’.”

Saudi foreign minister Adel al-Jubeir, meanwhile, said in a German newspaper interview: “There is discussion on whether ground troops are needed against IS.

“If a decision is taken to send in special units against Isis, Saudi Arabia is ready to take part.”

In an interview with AFP released on Friday, Syrian president Bashar al-Assad said he “doesn’t rule out” that Turkey and Saudi Arabia would intervene militarily in Syria, but said his armed forces “will certainly confront it”.

Saudi Arabia and Turkey both staunchly support rebels seeking to oust Assad, and see his overthrow as essential for ending Syria’s five-year civil war that has cost more than 260,000 lives.

They fear the west is losing its appetite to overthrow him on the assumption he is “the lesser of two evils” compared with Isis.

Both are outraged by Russia’s military intervention in Syria, which analysts believe has given Assad a new lease of life and has also deeply alarmed the West.

Russian prime minister Dmitry Medvedev said on Saturday strains with the west over the Syrian and Ukraine conflicts had plunged the world into a “new Cold War”.

US secretary of state John Kerry complained that the vast majority of Russia’s attacks in Syria were against “legitimate opposition groups” rather than Isis jihadists.

An ambush by rebels on pro-regime forces near Damascus this week killed 76 fighters, the Syrian Observatory said on Saturday.

World powers on Friday announced an ambitious plan to stop fighting in Syria within a week.

But doubts have emerged over its viability, especially because it did not include Isis or al-Qaeda’s local branch, which is fighting alongside other rebel groups in several areas.

Back to the original thread question about airspace restrictions for civilian traffic: not yet but the plan is there waiting to be activated . If the Brown stuff hits the fan and the Turkish-Iran corridor closes it's going to hurt a lot to f Airlines with much longer routes .
Hopefully the start of this will be a NATO coordinated event and some form of warning will be issued to divert aircraft in flight .
But experience shows us that a full staged war is rarely preceded by a NOTAM .

Given the announcement by Turkish foreign minister Cavusolglu that ground operations are a must , that Turkey is acting in alliance with the Saudis and that some twenty Arab nations are about to begin joint military exercises, not much chance of Turkey waiting any longer for a blessing from NATO. In such an eventuality the airspace affected will cover much more than the bordering region of Northern Syria. Bad for business for most airlines, including THY. Even worse if Russia becomes rather objectionable to such a move. But might be good for the cruise liner business, unless of course their ships get requisitioned for troops.

Maybe a comprehensive airspace block would help the players become aware of how destructive their policies are becoming.
As is, it feels a little like we are slithering into a 'religious' war whose scope might extend from Morocco to India.