Does the truth hurt you?? If you need to use the washroom and the seatbelt sign is lit, you take your chances either trying to hold it in or to go to the washroom. But I'll bet many just get up when they don't need to go that bad or even worse, ignore the seatbelt light and not buckle up. For those people, I say stupid! Just like obeying a traffic light, that seatbelt light is there for your safety and those around you.

No smoking and seat belt sign.
 

I'm old enough to remember the "No Smoking" sign turned off at first flap retraction and "Fasten seat belt" sign off upon contacting Center.

Polar Jet Stream Cross-section: (note 11 km is aprox FL360)
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/...bucket/CAT.jpg

Well the pax injured all at the back I think that is what they were doing. Around 4 hours into the flight meal service finished carts being put away; the pax were either in or waiting for the lav after the meal service had finished. The FA's were probably stowing the carts. Back of the aircraft is always where the worse G moments will be in turbulence.

If you look in the lavs when the seatbelt light comes up the lav light normally says something like 'return to your seat' - pax are not going to do that when they got up and walked to the lav in the first place.

If seatbelt sign is on it means don't even go to the lav it is too dangerous and same for FA's with hot drinks and carts - they should be seated and carts away too. If it is NOT too dangerous then the seat belt light should be off.

Are you saying that there should be no differentiation between how the seat belt signs apply to pax and F/As? How would that work?

"Are you saying that there should be no differentiation between how the seat belt signs apply to pax and F/As?"

Do FA's undergo special "walking in turbulence" training?

I didn't say that. :ugh:

My question was about the previous poster's suggestion that F/As should be seated whenever the seatbelt sign is on (ie not just when there's a "Cabin crew take your seats now" annunciation).

Views on how that would work (or not) welcomed.

I worked for AA for 15 years (ending in about 2003) and it was common practice to keep the seat belt sign on for the entire duration of a flight.
It was a delight to return to flying in Europe where the sign was put on as and when needed!

If you bombard people with information it will, sooner or later, become utterly disregarded.

There is a difference in the acceptable risk (and liability) between the FA (employees) and passengers (customers).
That's the same reason that when you take your car into the repair shop, you're generally not allowed in the service area unless escorted.

@tdracer

That is it exactly.

In the EU+ MC99 applies to all flights including domestic flights in Member States.

For international flights to/from US MC99 also applies (perhaps with a few minor exceptions where Warsaw continues to apply). Domestic US flights are subject to US laws.

How are F/A's supposed to do a through the cabin check that all punters are belted in if the F/A's are belted in themselves?

I've known some "special training" in Ye Olde Kings Head in Santa Monica of salting their beer to stop them burping during flight ..... but no walking in turbulence training I'm afraid :)

Jack 111 ; Im a bit older than you but it was; with belt sign in auto, no smoking went off at gear retracted. Belts went off at flaps up (or" in" if you were really sad). Reverse happened for descent/ approach. We were all so highly paid in those days, we demanded full manual control over this vital issue and the auto position was never used. Didn't stop our cabin crew from over-riding this challenging Command Decision by permitting punters to visit the loo, regardless. Being a fully qualified amateur lawyer, I announced, on the PA, that ignoring seat/belt signs was, in fact, ignoring a lawful command and liable to litigation. Head of cabin crew told me I got lots of finger signs as people swept passed the FD door into the forward loo. Villains !

If you read my original post I said that if the FAs continue meal/trolley service with hot drinks being served then the seatbelt light is obviously superfluous. If the FAs are merely doing a check that all belts are fastened then returning to their stations to strap in, then the seatbelt sign is likely to be real.

The more usual case is that the seatbelt light goes on and 3 hours later after a full meal service with hot drinks being passed over passengers, it is still on. Pax have every right to consider that it is meaningless. Those with 2 hour bladders will wait for the final trolley to pass and then visit the lavs and none of the FA's will stop them to tell them to return to their seats because the FA's don't believe the seatbelt light either.

Seat belt falsehood
 

Ian W

You are the only person who speaks sense on this seat belt topic.

The default position on any aircraft in flight is that pax are seated and belted, just like in an automobile. That is precautionary safety and it is never sufficiently policed in either transport mode. Lack of policing of the default is the root problem. Cabin crew the same when not carrying out work duties (but of course they all mill around in the servery, chatting and posing, no?)

If the seat belt sign is illuminated by the flight deck, that ought to indicate an escalation of hazard that only the flight deck is aware of, such as take-off, landing, turbulence ahead, technical problem, need to divert or a flight security issue. The seat belt sign ought to be replaced with a hazard warning to avoid doubt...."WARNING-SIT DOWN AND BELT UP"

It ought to apply to everyone, including the cabin crew, who should stow trolleys and sit down, and lav pax do the same. The default position of everyone belted up is then restored.

The experience of trillions of pax across the world over decades, is that the flight deck leaves the seat belt illuminated during meal service, sometimes for the whole journey, mostly with no turbulence, and no one believes it anymore.

That is not the fault of unruly pax, it is the fault of flight deck indolence across the industry.

One explanation I was given is that cabin crew are automatically insured as employees and pax are not insured if they leave their seat with the light on. Can anyone corroborate that?

I recall once when I was travelling with Ukraine International and on a freebie business class upgrade.

We'd experienced some turbulence during which the seat belt sign went on, the turbulence had long since passed however the flight crew had clearly neglected to switch the sign off whilst I had been tucking in to the business class liquid refreshments and I needed to go to the toilet.

I called the F/A across, explained my predicament, she told me I could go until I pointed out to her that the sign was still on, she nipped in to the flight deck and problem solved.

Now pax need to frequent the toilet(s) throughout any flight and if the seat belt sign is permanently on, and we are to ignore it to use the toilet, then how are we to know when it is on for the sake of being on and when it is on for 'real'?

And, unless I'm doing something in particular, I always sit there with my seat belt loosely fastened.

For all the guys and gals who've been successfully doing this job,for the past 20 plus years,..Isn't it amazing how this topic still continues to bring up widely varying opinions....
Come on...common sense will guide you home,every time.

Ps.still...can't convince Mrs String to stay strapped in after that sign is switched off....maybe because she is from a certain country in South America..lol.:ugh::ugh:

What is the official bladder time?

Edmund