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History would seem to be a useful consideration here.
Was the previous behaviour unremarkable? Had a stress incident occurred (loss of a friend or relative)? Was the person suffering withdrawal from medication? |
Differentiating between mental illness, physical illness (no, a cerebral tumor is a physical illness not mental illness) or drug use can tax us doctors with MRI scans in a hospital. You cant expect a crew to do it, but it shouldnt matter as the captain should remove the individual regardless of any other desk jockies.
If the individual refuses, the use of police is often the only option both on an aircraft and even in a hospital. The problem is that throughout the western world there is a need to then assess the prisoner and where mental or physical illness is the cause move them into the health system. Sadly prisons in both our countries are wrongly occupied by people with mental illness due to a failure of the criminal justice system, under funding of mental illness and ignorance bordering on vindictiveness from politicians, the media and the public. |
..."We have ways and means to make anybody behave irrational..."
Leave it to the professionals to get to the roots of her behaviour. She didn't harass any pax afaik. Keep all options open!
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The criminal complaint by the air marshal is revealing, and disturbing.
1. Cabin-crew members at CLT requested AA management to take this unfortunate woman off the roster before departure. I'm guessing that this does not happen very often. Yet their (well-justified) apprehensions were dismissed, apparently without investigation. Whatever happened to "If there's any doubt, there's no doubt?" 2. On the leg to FRA, she physically assaulted colleagues at least twice, and a federal air marshal again at least twice. Two of the four assaults (the slapping of the CC member, and the forceful shoving of the air marshal) were violent by any possible definition. How is it that this was not reported to AA management, local law-enforcement and the TSA immediately after landing at FRA? Or if it was, why was no action taken on those reports? In particular, why did three federal air marshals allow a person they had certain knowledge to be violent and unstable to reboard the aircraft the following day? Is that not precisely what they are there to prevent? If they do not have the power to do so on their own authority, what are they for? 3. 14 CFR 91.3 (a). The same questions apply to the captain. It beggars belief that he was not informed of what transpired on the CLT-FRA leg. On what basis did he conclude that it did not compromise flight safety to let any person who had behaved in such a way onto the aircraft for the return leg, far less to act in the capacity of a crew member? AA management has, without doubt, some pretty serious questions to answer. But so, it seems to me, do the other parties involved. |
i agree with blind squirrel's comments.
ultimately, i see two outcomes:
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What relationship was there between the CC member and the Captain of the aircraft?
Snow’s initial appearance in federal court was cancelled. |
[QUOTE]I would class that as a mental illness . . .[/QUOTE
Negative G-CPTN. |
I don't get it. If the Captain says she's out, then she is out. What happened there ?
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Where does it state that the Captain said she was out?
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Where does it state that the Captain said she was out? |
Originally Posted by G-CPTN
What relationship was there between the CC member and the Captain of the aircraft?
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN What relationship was there between the CC member and the Captain of the aircraft? |
I hope she gets the help that she needs. It's sad that in this industry and in society in general, mental health is often not cared for properly, with taboos and fear of repercussions. There has to be more to this than we currently know. Crew observe strange behaviour, don't think she should fly, crew tell purser who tells captain she should not operate, captain offloads her. Maybe insufficient evidence before airborne CLT but subsequent behaviour should have had her stood down in FRA and pax home. Dozens of unanswered questions at the moment. |
Regardless..
Its the Captains responsibility, its his job to make sure the flight operates safely.. And when u have a person, crew or not, acting this why they must be removed.. people acting crazy for any reason needs to be removed.. ITS FAR's. and to further the irresponsibility they allowed her to board the next day as a crew member.. Why is it people can't follow the rules. People die when people don't follow the rules.. The girl needs help and I hope she gets it. But not on my flight. Take her to where she needs to be.. In a hospital. Not a working crew member. They have good hospitals in FRA. |
Looks like she is indeed getting help with her illness.
I sense from the air marshal's affidavit that the hope was she would be taken care of by her crew on return to CLT. Unfortunately, running past the immigration officer screaming was something that could not be overlooked in a public venue with a holiday terror alert in effect. Once he took her into custody he had to document her behavior in the legal realm to show that his actions were justified. Those of us who sign for the plane wonder where the pilot in command was in this decision process. Flight attendant accused of attacks appears in court Published Tuesday, Dec. 1, 2015 | 5:52 p.m. Updated 2 hours, 1 minute ago CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) — An American Airlines flight attendant accused of attacking fellow crew members and two U.S. air marshals during a trans-Atlantic flight made her first court appearance Tuesday, where attorneys argued over whether she should be held in custody or released to her family. Joanne Snow wore a black shirt, black slacks and shackles as she entered a federal courtroom in uptown Charlotte. She was flanked on her right by federal defender Elizabeth Blackwood. Snow appeared agitated, often speaking above a whisper to Blackwood to try to understand questions from U.S. Magistrate Judge David S. Cayer in the small courtroom. She occasionally spoke over Cayer as he explained the charges against her. Asked if she had retained an attorney, Snow responded, "Do you really want to know?" Snow said she had hired an attorney whom she identified as a lead prosecutor in New Hampshire, also telling the judge he was a Republican. U.S. Assistant Attorney Michael Savage argued that Snow exhibited a danger to the community, adding that in addition to her alleged attacks on the plane, she disarmed a door as the aircraft was taxiing. "Given her current state, she's a danger to herself and to others," Savage said. Blackwood asked that Snow be released to see her two sons in New Hampshire. "I want to go home to see my sons more than you know," Snow told the judge. No one responded to a message left Tuesday at one of two telephone numbers listed for Snow. No one answered a second number, and it was not possible to leave a voice message. It was also revealed in court that Snow was involuntarily committed to Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte before she was voluntarily committed to nearby Cabarrus Medical Center. Savage said she is currently being held in the Mecklenburg County jail, but no record of her could be found online Tuesday. Flight attendant Joanne Snow who fought with American Airlines crew appears in court | Daily Mail Online |
Even harder to believe she was allowed to operate the return sector. I bet there's nothing in the Rule Book to say that you can't count all on-duty cabin staff towards the minimum if they are all present and correct, well, present at least, even if you suspect that one may need at some point in the flight to don a strait-jacket. Afterthought: By the way, how come the same crew was rostered for the return sector? Quite a long duty, I would have thought. Or is there a minimum rest layover, and if so, couldn't the problem have been resolved during it? |
Were they already operating at minimum cabin staffing whereby they couldn't legally depart without the ill flight attendant??
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Hypothetical question: acepting that there are big questions on how she came to be on the outbound flight in the first place, what would have been the reaction by crew and marshalls if this behaviour had been exhibited by a passenger?
Quite different, I suggest. Food for thought . . . . . |
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