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-   -   U.N. agrees on radio spectrum for global flight tracking (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/570476-u-n-agrees-radio-spectrum-global-flight-tracking.html)

Mark in CA 11th Nov 2015 15:15

U.N. agrees on radio spectrum for global flight tracking
 
"This extends ADS-B signals beyond line-of-sight to facilitate reporting the position of aircraft equipped with ADS-B anywhere in the world, including oceanic, polar and other remote areas," the U.N. International Telecommunication Union (ITU) said in a statement.

U.N. agrees on radio spectrum for global flight tracking

Ian W 11th Nov 2015 21:03


Originally Posted by Mark in CA (Post 9177702)
"This extends ADS-B signals beyond line-of-sight to facilitate reporting the position of aircraft equipped with ADS-B anywhere in the world, including oceanic, polar and other remote areas," the U.N. International Telecommunication Union (ITU) said in a statement.

U.N. agrees on radio spectrum for global flight tracking

Now all they need to do is find a way for the ADS-B to be kept powered on when someone wants to 'vanish' the aircraft.

ve3id 11th Nov 2015 22:09

Keeping it powered on
 
It's very simple. I have such a system in my car. Radio amateurs around the world have APRS, which is basically the same technology as ADS-B. GPS receiver, controller, and radio transmitter. $100 per unit.

All I need to do is put a jumper wire in my trunk (boot) to keep it powered up by the rear aux battery and it will be on H24 sending out my position.

A few watts and a local polymer fuse is all you need, so danger of fire if not associated with a CB in the cockpit or EB is insignificant.

WhatsaLizad? 11th Nov 2015 23:08

Awesome idea.


Are you available to wire my airlines 900+ fleet?


Who needs all these EE Engineers and their pesky load and failure analysis.


Thanks for the entertainment

MarcK 12th Nov 2015 00:27


Who needs all these EE Engineers and their pesky load and failure analysis.
Indeed. The entire payload can be mounted outside the pressure vessel. Or, you can wait for CAA guidance and do it the hard way.:rolleyes:

Ian W 12th Nov 2015 12:24

Go to the MH370 thread and read all the crew comments about not wanting equipment powered that they cannot switch off.

nicolai 12th Nov 2015 17:38

Best not tell them about the Hot Battery Bus.

Prada 12th Nov 2015 18:42

Beyond Line of sight
 
First, when I read this, I thought ITU wants to use short waves, which naturally propagate beyond line of site, only they are very tricky to use reliably. Plus very narrow band don't allow much data to be sent.
But actually they are dedicating 1087.7-1092.3 MHz for satellite service. I wonder if we already have satellite constellation up there that is able to receive that frequency band?

Original article:

United Nations News Centre - UN conference reaches agreement on radio spectrum for global flight tracking

ATCast 12th Nov 2015 21:01


First, when I read this, I thought ITU wants to use short waves, which naturally propagate beyond line of site, only they are very tricky to use reliably. Plus very narrow band don't allow much data to be sent.
But actually they are dedicating 1087.7-1092.3 MHz for satellite service. I wonder if we already have satellite constellation up there that is able to receive that frequency band?
1090 MHz is the frequency that is used by the transponders to reply to radar & TCAS interrogations and is also used for transmission of ADS-B messages.
Aireon is currently deploying satellite based ADS-B receivers on the next generation of Iridium satellites. Global coverage is expected in a couple of years.

peekay4 12th Nov 2015 21:11

There are a few experimental receivers such as the ADS-B receiver on board ESA's Proba-V satelllite.

As ATCast mentions 1087.7-1092.3 MHz is simply the normal ADS-B band (1090 MHz band) already in use today. Prior to the agreement, this band was only "protected" for air-to-ground use. Now this band will be protected for space-based applications as well.

Iridium is planning to launch a completely new constellation of 66 satellites (called Iridium NEXT) to replace what they have today. This gives Iridium a unique opportunity to place an ADS-B receiver on board each of those satellites.

So they've formed a joint-venture (Aireon) with NAV CANADA to commercialize space-based ADS-B service. NAV CANADA will also be Aireon's first customer. Canada needs cost-effective ADS-B coverage within remote territories as well as the busy North Atlantic sector. Similarly, Ireland, Australia, etc., will also be early adopters.

The first Iridium NEXT launch was scheduled for last month, but that's now been postponed until April 2016 at the earliest. This delay may push Aireon's commercial service past the original target of 2018.

There are other providers also eager to provide space-based service. DLR and SES -- the European partners behind that Proba-V ADS-B experiment -- will likely propose their own solution.

AerocatS2A 13th Nov 2015 05:45


Originally Posted by nicolai (Post 9178865)
Best not tell them about the Hot Battery Bus.

Battery can be turned off, if you really need to.

NSEU 13th Nov 2015 06:14


Battery can be turned off, if you really need to.
Aircraft type? Tools involved? Do you have to open up the bonnet? (see message #3) :}

Dont Hang Up 13th Nov 2015 07:43

As peekay4 and ATCast have said, this is not an aircraft equipment issue (hotwired or otherwise).

It is simply a clarification that the existing ADS-B transmissions from existing Mode S transponders can be received by satellite. This requires that the 1090MHz frequency is protected in this domain.

lilflyboy262...2 14th Nov 2015 06:32

The Kingair 350 has "battery emergency off" to isolate the hot bus.
The only tool involved is the pilot flicking the switch to turn it off.

Ian W 15th Nov 2015 17:24


Originally Posted by Dont Hang Up (Post 9179381)
As peekay4 and ATCast have said, this is not an aircraft equipment issue (hotwired or otherwise).

It is simply a clarification that the existing ADS-B transmissions from existing Mode S transponders can be received by satellite. This requires that the 1090MHz frequency is protected in this domain.

It leads the way to an aircraft equipage issue as the next step is to mandate that all aircraft with (name a number of seats) or flying in (name a region type definition) to carry and operate at all times ADS-B, with extended squitter (for identity). There will be those operators that, for many reasons (eg Security, commercial confidentiality, etc), do not wish to be tracked. This will not be as easy an area to implement as people seem to think. Then of course as the ADS can be disabled from the cockpit, it will not achieve its aims either. No wonder the committee was celebrating :rolleyes:

peekay4 16th Nov 2015 01:07

ADS-B Out is already mandated by the FAA starting in 2020, and many other regions will surely follow. (Although in the US not all ADS-B will be using the 1090MHz band, since the more GA / privacy friendly 978 MHz UAT will also be available).

Even without a mandate, many if not most commercial ops will want to opt-into extended ADS-B service because better tracking yields operational benefits and ultimately saves them money.

Icarus2001 16th Nov 2015 02:12

As this is clearly a reaction to MH370 what difference would it have made to the outcome?

We would know where the wreckage is likely to be. There would still be a B777 sitting on the ocean floor somewhere.

Hey, if it makes the UN and states feel warm and fuzzy to be seen to DO SOMETHING then great. It will certainly generate lots of economic activity for the design, build, install and maintenance of the feel good tracker.

peekay4 16th Nov 2015 02:33

No space-based ADS-B tracking was not in reaction to MH370.

The Aireon joint-venture to put ADS-B receivers onboard the 66 Iridium NEXT satellites started in 2012.

The ADS-B guest payload on the Proba-V satellite was launched in 2013.

MH370 did not happen until March, 2014.

Icarus2001 16th Nov 2015 02:36

Thank you for the info. I still stand by my other comments.

It brings to mind those who say CCTV prevents crime. Not really. It just lets you see the crime taking place. Then we see the birth of "hoody" culture to hide faces.


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