Was there anything heard from Israel? Can hardly imagine that they do not permanently, carefully and accurately monitor this airspace, which is just across the border that was a battlefield may times in the past. If they did (monitor) they could at least line out some versions discussed IDF coordinating with Russia, Egypt to help locate felled Russian plane in Sinai - Breaking News - Jerusalem Post Benjamin Netanyahu: We are in contact with Egyptian, Russian governments regarding circumstance of crash - Breaking News - Jerusalem Post |
@hamster3null Purely from a physics perspective, a pressure wave traveling forward seems unlikely in a simple explosive decompression. I guess we have to define "explosive". I'm talking about a section of fuselage departing for whatever reason. This pops open like a soda can, not a bomb. Your examples all involve an actual explosion: TWA800 fuel tank/missile (whichever story you want to believe), Buk a missile, in either of those cases, the pressure wave is generated by an explosion, not the "explosive" decompression.
If of course there was a bomb on board, the same theory applies and a pressure wave could indeed have travelled front ways far enough to disturb the pressure ports. |
ADIRU
wrong data from the inertial reference unit can lead to a hardover
high rate of descent followed by higher climb rate in a short time, leading to higher G load Can somebody calculate the G load with the given data? |
The A320 family as I have stated before climb very slowly . When the rate falls to around approximately two hundred feet a minute they fly level. They accelerate a few knots past the target climb speed and then pitch up again and resume climbing. This is repeated until the aircraft reaches its cruise level.
The ground speed from FR seems very low for a climb in a heavy aircraft. If the aircraft speed falls to below green dot at high level it will neither climb or accelerate and a descent will be required to accelerate the aircraft and allow climb to be resumed. |
@physicus the AC has a speed near to the speed of sound, so it’s more unlikely to give a statement from physics of a wave which cannot travel faster than the speed of sound in either case of explosion or decompression.
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Russian authorities ground Kogalymavia fleet
Russian news agency Interfax reports that the country's transportation authority has grounded all of Kogalymavia's Airbus 321:
ROSTRANSNADZOR SUSPENDS FLIGHTS OF KOGALYMAVIA AIRBUSES A321 |
Originally Posted by physicus
(Post 9164823)
@hamster3null Purely from a physics perspective, a pressure wave traveling forward seems unlikely in a simple explosive decompression. I guess we have to define "explosive". I'm talking about a section of fuselage departing for whatever reason. This pops open like a soda can, not a bomb. Your examples all involve an actual explosion: TWA800 fuel tank/missile (whichever story you want to believe), Buk a missile, in either of those cases, the pressure wave is generated by an explosion, not the "explosive" decompression.
If of course there was a bomb on board, the same theory applies and a pressure wave could indeed have travelled front ways far enough to disturb the pressure ports. TWA 800 was not destroyed directly by the fuel tank explosion. The explosion cracked the fuselage, which was then blown apart by the pressure differential between the cabin and the outside air. |
Originally Posted by tubby linton
(Post 9164843)
The A320 family as I have stated before climb very slowly . When the rate falls to around approximately two hundred feet a minute they fly level. They accelerate a few knots past the target climb speed and then pitch up again and resume climbing. This is repeated until the aircraft reaches its cruise level.
The A320 climbs very well to the level the aircraft recommends you climb to. |
Whilst engaging in general speculation is never helpful (and the endless debate about the FR24 data is a fine example of the bottomless rabbit holes some people like to go down) the emerging pictures and information on the wreckage spread tend to suggest a high altitude break up. Caused by I've no idea.
The picture of the tail section shown on various news media sources is interesting though. Obviously the collapse damage to the empennage is mostly down the impact with ground. Likewise the lower fuselage damage and that around the L4 door. There are, however, signs of the fuselage skin peeling outwards (red arrows) possibly indicative of a force acting outwards from within. Similarly there's the very clean break around the fuselage frame. It looks like an initial failure as opposed to something twisting and tearing apart as it fell. http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/...FEC5ED1E3C.jpg |
On that basis, I am incredulous as to why a terrorist act has been ruled out with such vigor. In light of the I.S. claim to having brought down the aircraft, my incredulity remains. |
A word from military industry professional. I would like to end all the missile scenarios.
Sinai is a demilitarised zone, you cannot simply move a SA 11 battery into it. The area is strictly monitored by Egyptians and Israelis, it is impossible to position a complex missile system there without being noticed. Not mentioning obtaining the whole system, which is not only a launcher, but also command component, acquisition radar and logistics vehicles. As it comes to MANPADS, thanks to Wassenaar arrangement, trading of those is limited to government to government transactions. Each of the sets has a serial number which allows to track the whole history of ownership. Therefore they would be too precious for a terrorist group to waste on an airliner. It's much simpler to install a pressure activated explosive charge. On the technical side, such missile sets require heat seeker cooling procedure before target acquisition, operating them is not computer game - easy. Even if you complete the procedure, the best combat proven MANPADS have effective range of 5-6 km and effective ceiling of 3-4 km. As you can see, reaching fl 33 is out of question. Hope it helps. |
Similarly there's the very clean break around the fuselage frame. UPD: on the other side, if it falls upside down, it was naturally teared along frames and ribs (as we can see at the tail fin breakage) after vertical stabilizer hit the ground. |
On that basis, I am incredulous as to why a terrorist act has been ruled out with such vigor. In light of the I.S. claim to having brought down the aircraft, my incredulity remains. If I were MAK I'd isolate the area from these buffoons as soon as possible, god help us if they touch the DFDR's. |
Given the comments I have read regarding security at Sharm, it does seem sensible at this juncture for authorities to investigate the possibility some sort of smuggled device being used to down the airliner. Islamic State urges jihad against Russians, Americans: audio | Reuters And note that ISIS made this threat against 'crusaders' on Oct 13th - the very day that the Knights Templar were all destroyed by King Philip the Fair. It demonstrates the historical context that they are operating within. |
Kulverstukas: This quite accurate cut along frame (spanthout) looks suspicious. |
Within hours (literally) the Egyptian authorities declared all sorts of things (distress call, recorders being decoded, no bomb, no missile). And given that ISIS urged a holy war against Russia just a couple of weeks ago |
@hamster3null thanks for the TWA800 article link, very illuminating and compelling evidence that I was wrong. The details would be a little different at an air temperature of -50C (namely the speed of sound is about 10% slower) and the speed of the aircraft was higher. Short of finding their simulation code and plugging in our numbers, I suspect your theory has merit and is plausible.
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Russian news agency Interfax reports that the country's transportation authority has grounded all of Kogalymavia's Airbus 321: Same was with Tu-204/214 fleet after VKO overrun. |
Fin and rudder on russian Metro A320
Kulverstuka #235 at 1158
My take on fin and rudder , pic at #233 and earlier..... Fin reduced to a stub. Not ripped or graunched by the inverted ground contact you suggested. Very clear in earlier picture, leading edge of top half of fin has collapsed onto the 'stub' due to high vertical G force at pancake type impact Looks as if rudder had departed before the 'collapse' |
wilyflier has collapsed onto the 'stub' due to high vertical G force at pancake type impact On the other hand, any part which is strongly damaged bears prominent traces of dust and sand/ground, literally excavates it. Doesn't it mean that parts which are clear doesn't contact ground or make it with small speed? |
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