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-   -   BA 777 on fire in Las Vegas (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/567401-ba-777-fire-las-vegas.html)

wiggy 17th Nov 2017 07:59

Re BA SOPS (i.e. not GSS) and autothrottle, etc.....the 744 -

1. What TC said...the SOP was/is autothrottle out if manually flying the aircraft.


A friend of mine on the BA A380 in 2 years has never manually flown the aircraft much above 1000ft even in CAVOK, usually being handed control for landing off a coupled approach at 500/800 ft when on an ILS with mandatory full time A/T.
I'm not versed in the 380 but reasonably up to speed on ULH ops at BA....with that in mind..

Landing pilot (:p) not supposed to take control above 1000 feet...etc...that's true...but it doesn't routinely have to be a coupled approach down to that point, so unless there is a fleet specific rule there's no reason why your friend can't hand fly the bird down the approach if they are the non landing pilot, before the 1000 'handover, if conditions permit...

As part of the descent brief I always mention if I think it's a good day for hand flying and encourage my colleagues to knock the autopilot out if conditions are suitable...good grief, even knackered old me can hand fly a 777 down from F240 on a good day on an early arrival into LHR and most of the guys I fly with can manage to hand fly off the LHR holds and produce an acceptable ILS whilst also pondering: "WTF is this Bovington hold our American friends are on about....." ....

In your friends defence I'd say being a FO or SFO on a ULH fleet doesn't give you much opportunity for hand flying ( 'cos of the dilution in stick time due to heavy sectors, not because of BA SOPs) but that has always gone with the territory...if your friend really wants to fly the aircraft they need to speak up more during the descent brief and discuss the matter....this idea that BA somehow ban hand flying is nonsense..

akindofmagic 17th Nov 2017 08:39


this idea that BA somehow ban hand flying is nonsense..
ATHR/ auto throttle OFF is banned on FBW fleets though? (Or is that a myth?)

wiggy 17th Nov 2017 08:56

It's as Tay Cough described ( personally I don't agree with that bit of the SOPs, but we are stuck with it) - obviously (?) that is not the same as a ban on hand flying the other "bits" when appropriate
(up/down/left/right etc..:8)

cessnapete 17th Nov 2017 18:32

Full time mandatory speed control by A/T is not manual flying in my book! Speed control using the throttle/ thrust lever is just as important in maintaining your flying skills.
Shows up in the very poor single engine thrust control shown by the pilot handling, after engine failure, in the BA Airbus which took off with an unlatched cowling.

Apparently done once every 2 years in the sim!

c_coder 18th Nov 2017 01:23


Originally Posted by Trossie (Post 9110481)
Wallet and passport can fit in your pockets

Same here but I am a guy, with pockets. Women are more likely to keep their stuff in a bag and rules about unsecured objects require that those bags be in the overhead locker or under the seat in front of you. A lot of people are too tall to put bags under the seat so it has to be put in the locker.

Airlines could address this by providing a way for passengers to safely carry essential items. They could also establish a rule that luggage never goes on a slide but can be thrown under the body of the aircraft and potentially recovered later if the owner really has to take it with them.

c_coder 18th Nov 2017 01:53

Lockers
 

Originally Posted by turker339 (Post 9110465)
And if said fire was in an overhead compartment and the central locking couldn't unlock it because of burnt wires etc. so the crew could get to and extinguish the fire?

I suppose you could make it fairly safe by using normally open switches to power solenoid controlled latches. That way the lockers would be unlocked by default. If power is lost they will unlock. But the cabin crew could hold the locks on in the few seconds when the passengers are starting for the exits. They would back that up with commands to run and leave the bags.

wiggy 18th Nov 2017 06:38


Speed control using the throttle/ thrust lever is just as important in maintaining your flying skills.
I wouldn't disagree but we are stuck with the SOPs.

On the rare occasions anyone in the "head shed" has tried to justify the policy the logic rolled out is that the safety benefits of using auto throttle (e.g. low speed protection, reduced landing dispersion) out weigh the increased risk...

Regardless of whether an autopilot out/autothrottle in approach can be called hand flown or not I would agree it is deskilling...I personally don't like the policy, I think autothrottle/auto thrust should be optional but as I said on the line we are stuck with it so please don't shoot the messenger....

4468 18th Nov 2017 15:13

In BA....

Being unable (on fbw fleets) to take out autothrust, is a right royal pita! But typical misguided arse covering!

Monitored approaches have advantages and disadvantages.

PM selecting reverse is no major problem, but it's not how the manufacturer designed the a/c nor how it recommends it's operation. For years now I've heard that BA are on the brink of PF operating their own reversers. We shall see.

ULH does not lend itself to being well practiced in manual flying. Frankly the overwhelming majority could probably be described as 'rusty' at best. Flying into and out of the busiest airports in the world, when tired, are not the greatest places to 'give yourself a bit of practice because you're rusty'!

But....

Unlike many airlines, in BA we are able to access sim practice. That's where we should be practicing if we feel rusty. Not in Class A airspace! There's also no ban on manual thrust in the sim. So if you consider yourself a professional, take advantage of the system in place! It's not just to practice for your upcoming check!

There's no excuse!

And anyone in an A380, or any aircraft for that matter, who has never flown it above 1000'.. Clearly just doesn't want to!

Private jet 29th Nov 2017 20:29

BA & its predecessor companies have always had a fetish for re-writing the manuals and implementing their own "ways" of doing things. The dogma seemed to be "why do something the straightforward, pragmatic way when you can do it the complicated, idiosyncratic way". There has always been some sort of intrinsic institutionalised need amongst the "intelligentsia" to be different, perhaps "special" even.

overstress 30th Nov 2017 12:04

PrivateJet: Thrust lever/reverse handling aside, 'Back to Boeing' a few years back sorted out most of the nonsense in the manuals...

Bergerie1 30th Nov 2017 16:38

The nonsense in the manuals came about because of all the 'unfortunate' horse trading that went on back in the '80s after the merger in an attempt to produce a common operating philosophy and set of procedures. It was a difficult time!


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