I'm not going to speculate, but as rapid decompression has been discussed, here is my tuppence worth.
Irrespective of what many here have stated, and despite how many times you practice in the sim, a rapid decompress at or above FL400 is certainly going to present any pilot with a major challenge. You can forget the procedure we are all ready for while sitting in our nice warm sim every six months, because the first sign of anything abnormal in real life is 100% for sure going to scare and confuse the cr@p out of you (quite probably, literally). There is one video posted previously that illustrates this very well....the pilot, who was fully prepared for the event, sat for about three or four seconds like a startled rabbit, and following this was unable to get his mask on without assistance. Again, this was someone who was fully ready and prepared to do only one thing....get his mask on! It surprises me that some here are not able to imagine the physics behind what happens - all air suddenly expelled from your lungs, eardrums, and bodily cavities, and finding oneself shocked by the dramatic temperature reduction, terrible noise, fogged air and debris flying around the cockpit. Total confusion doesn't even begin to describe the state most of us would be in. I would even go so far as to state that as airliners are now cruising at higher and higher levels compared with 30 years ago, a re-think on the rules is needed to get this uncomfortable elephant out of the room. |
I find the concept of an automatic descent due to (insert failure scenario) , especially given the possibility of nonsense input which could trigger same, not a little disconcerting. |
Quote:
Decompression has been ruled out by GermanWings. This leaves me completely clueless. source? press conference? Philippa Oldham, Head of Transport at the Institution of Mechanical Engineers I don't think it makes sense though as I don't think she has more information than the rest of the people not involved in the investigation do. |
How on earth could they rule out depressurisation and crew incapacitation? There is no basis to do that at this stage.
they would have had 8 minutes to have made ATC aware of a control problem yet made no contact? The aircraft flew in a straight line surely any pilot faced with such a situation would try everything to gain control which would make it extremely unlikely that the aircraft would fly a straight line. Every indication points to the pilots being incapacitated and the autopilot holding the aircraft on a heading and nothing to two alert pilots trying to control or regain control of an aircraft |
Germanwings crash: Evidence points to mechanical failure, say experts | News | Travel Trade Gazette
I fail to see any "evidence" here. Another BS article. The aircraft flew in a straight line surely any pilot faced with such a situation would try everything to gain control which would make it extremely unlikely that the aircraft would fly a straight line. |
Assuming these things can be manually overridden, and accepting nothing is infallible, I've seen no explanation yet as to why it wouldn't be better for the aircraft to halt it's descent and possibly climb if it thinks it's about to fly into terrain Technologies are at various stages of development and maturity. You are trying to elevate airliners to the "Terrain Following Radar" of mil jets... IMO (E)GPWS is great for safety, but it is not yet robust enough to override a pilot. |
Founder:
Could those systems be in place in those aircrafts because TUC (Time of Useful Consciousness) is so short at the altitudes where those aircraft operate? The other reason, I suspect, is the Payne Stewart (sp?) accident at the beginning of the century. |
Thats a rule for non-quick donning masks... Still exists.
|
Tigger too
The point is that you need pressure oxy to sustain activity below 80mps. For shortish periods you can easily work efficiently above 10000 cabin alt. I have personally experienced 15000 in air tests with no obvious impact (not at controls I hasten to add). Thus it is safe to allow crew to operate to 45000 without pressure breathing equipment since they would experience the relatively small shortfall for only seconds as they started descent. Concorde at 65000 was a different matter and had full pressure sets and mandatory baro cell/pressure breathing training for the pilots. |
Germanwings crash: Evidence points to mechanical failure, say experts | News | Travel Trade Gazette
What evidence is she referring to? :confused: Unless this person has access to flight recorder data and the crash site, I find this analysis premature at best ... at first blush it borders on irresponsible and unprofessional given her position. Hunter58: IMHO those doors have, whether aplicable in this case or not, endangered more lives than saved. |
ACARS?
Perhaps ACARS reported abnormal equipment events.
|
Btw, have we ever heard from BEA what happened to Air Asia A320? They were part of the investigation (though not in the lead). But how can it happen that 3 months after that accident we do not know about the cause WITH all recorders orderly retrieved. What can we expect from BEA this afternoon and in this case? the public forgets and isn't as interested or at least the press doesn't think so and for that reason the old incident is not on the front burner with the press. next there are many interest groups with joint and opposing interests who will lobby government bodies and try to control the narrative and news releases in their favor. These interest groups are company, manufacture, regulators, politicians, employees and employee unions. Probably others also and they all have lawyers. Now if there is some profound discovery early on in an investigation, a discovery that points to likely further and imminent occurence of similar failures, then you will see regulative action right away. As that has not occurred in the Latest Malaysia case then it would be fair to assume that nothing profound or unusual that has not been dealt with by previous rules and notices has been found. Now is the time for the lawyers and politicians to maneuver and determine whose ox will be gored. |
Germanwings crash: Evidence points to mechanical failure, say experts | News | Travel Trade Gazette However, the theory does not explain why no distress call was made during the eight-minute descent . Quite so...... :ugh: |
To those calling for auto terrain avoidance.
In the past 5 years my Airbus has 'thought' it was going to hit some granite on 3 occasions including while holding over London. If it had taken it upon itself to carry out the avoidance maneuvre on each occasion there is a significant chance I would not be here now. More automation isn't always the answer. |
Crash field
Some questions are posted about the crash site.
Car crashes are performed at 60 km/u, and see what remains of these steel cages. Some time ago an institute did a car crash test at 120 km/u. The nominal max speed in Western Europe. => those results where eye openers. Now you have an alumunum thin walled tube, smashing in a rock at a multiple of those car crash speeds. Technical failure preventing pitch control as stated abvove? Does that reporter even ""know"" how many ways there are to control pitch? Windscreen crack or blowout "IS" a possibility. With a 450 kt , -40°C windchill, storming into the cockpit? After the initial shock, (averaging 5-10 seconds for a normal human in a relaxed state) , remember, you are just leveling off, checks done, starting to relax as this is supposed to be the "easy part". After the intial BANG, the first pilot/human reaction is life preservation. And it takes seconds to analyse, think, act - react. + Certainly shock of seeing a wounded pilot/copilot next to you. Deathening noise, shearing -40°wind, "Where is my mask". be sure it will be NOTHING like in a simm, hell, I have to get lower. Damm, start desend . . no time it's over in seconds.. |
12 seconds of useful consciousness....
...that's what you have at 38,000ft.... 12 seconds of useful consciousness.... not long!
Imagine a scenario where, say, the windscreen goes. All of the paperwork in the flight deck gets thrown into the air, several kilos of dust from every surface in the flight deck is sucked into the air also, visibility reduces. You've got 400 kts of headwind in your face. The loud roar this produces makes communication impossible. Your ears are agony. Any trapped air inside your body is agony. Maybe you've been hit by parts of windscreen blown into the flight deck and you're injured. With this as the backdrop you have to fumble for your oxygen mask and get it on. A a previous post said.. If the masks are donned in an unpressurised aircraft at FL380 they will not provide sufficient O2 for the crew as there is insufficient partial pressure to breathe. The mask must be switched to the emergency setting (unless A320 has a different system) to provide ram air O2 to enable breathing. If this was not known or done by the crew then the mask would be of little use. At FL70 (6800 feet) the aircraft levels off and you are now below the level of the terrain. We know what happens next. |
Originally posted by lapp: I have read the references and relates postings and must say that what you say is correct. Notwithstanding, it is my totally personal opinion, that setting "EMER"for mask breathing at FL 380 can't do nothing but help breathing. Would you elaborate on the possible negative consequences of doing that. Are you freespeed2 posting under a different name? |
PRESS CONFERENCE at 16:00
According to Swedish Media the French Accident Investigators will have a press-conference at 16:00 Central European Time... in less than an hour from now...
|
Concorde at 65000 was a different matter and had full pressure sets and mandatory baro cell/pressure breathing training for the pilots. |
Decompression has been ruled out by GermanWings. This leaves me completely clueless. |
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:34. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.