Inertia Pins to Lock Overheads
 

You would need actuation for horizontal and vertical accelerations that would release springs to drive locking pins.

The pins would have to act quickly because bins tend to come open by themselves in harder landings.

You also need a mechanism to unlock the bins.

I can hear the beancounters wailing in horror at the prospect:}

Another way would be to automatically lock the bins when the seat belt sign is on -- even more distressing for the beancounters;)

Maybe Speedbird was the only airline to encounter "considerable contamination towards the end of the runway" because they were the only aircraft to operate near the end of the runway. PIREPS are based on what we as crews experience. I have encountered considerably different conditions than PIREPS would make me expect, only to realize I exited the runway further down then 90% of the previous flights. Throw rubber deposits in the last 1000-1500ft and it may be a lot worse near the end.

When I was a pilot pretty much everyone with much experience kinda figured that all things being equal the runway wAs going to be slippier at the other end.

Another round of outrage and angst over passengers acting like idiots in an emergency. Personally I have serious doubts they are ever going to change.

I can imagine the occasional Crew member using the word "reeks" about a cause of an accident b4 much is known. Not impressive. I was sometimes impressed with the regularity with which airline crews managed to operate into less than ideal airports in less than ideal wx with such frequency, considering the forces in play, and these accidents suggest to me that I wasn't impressed enough.

All in all, despite the high incidence of elevated egos, I stand in admiration of the professional pilots that carry on.

I'm not sure why a crew should feel bad about reporting their experience. Airbus crew certainly could have had good braking action where they were braking, while the MD 80 crew encountered slippery conditions while they were rolling out. With that much energy still in the aircraft, it wouldn't take much sliding to start point the aircraft askew, beginning the excursion sequence.

Or the warning not to take bags of any kind with you in an emergency evacuation could be part of the routine safety briefing. :=

I have been an SLF to the extent that flight attendants recognize me - but I have not had a safety brief that says not to take any bags with you on evacuation. Perhaps i have been flying the incorrect airlines?

The reason most SLF have cabin baggage is that those bags have valuable or irreplaceable items in them. It will take more than a line in the safety booklet to stop them taking those bags with them.

As frequent SLF, I am well aware of the instructions to leave everything behind when leaving an aircraft in an emergency. What is not clear to me is the relative importance of not being encumbered by a bag when going out through the door and down the slide compared with the delays and congestion caused by people extracting luggage from overhead and under seats.

My expectation is that once you are at the door, the fact that you are hugging a suitcase as you jump is of relatively minor importance.

The most obvious way to avoid cabin congestion and delay, whether during regular exit of emergency evacuation, is to limit the size and quantity of hand baggage.

Airlines should set reasonable size rules, and enforce them. And to complement this, they should not charge for reasonable quantities (size, weight, number) of checked bags, and should also ensure that bags get to the carousel as soon as the passenger. They could start by separating terminating and transferring bags at the departure airport, cutting one process and its delays from the delivery process.

Pax with carry-on during evacuation.
 

I believe passengers will continue to take their "stuff" with them during evacs even if there are flames outside the windows.


Locking overhead bins with the seatbelt sign on will reduce the problem somewhat. But once pax realize the bins lock they will use the storage at their feet for items they want access to during flight. Also, seatbelt signs are turned off later and sometimes never increasingly.

It's in every safety briefing I've heard in Aus. Yet a colleague was criticised once for allowing pax to evacuate (smoke in cabin on taxi out) with their bags.

Whilst I agree the pax are stupid for not leaving luggage behind. In a real evacuation, what is more likely to slow the process and possibly result in deaths;

• stopping the evacuation whilst the errant pax puts their hand luggage some where that doesn't further impede the other evacuating passengers, or,
• letting them out the door?

Quite right jack1111,


If there are flames outside the window, that's your last chance to retain your valuables. Wouldn't you do the same?

without knowing the facts here, I think a useful addition to the safety videos would be a simulation showing two scenarios:
1. Everyone delays to grab some hand luggage, and half of the passengers perish in fire;
2. everyone goes straight out without delay, and the fire consumes the cabin just as the last person exits.

This would make the point.

It would be interesting to set up both situations in a mock-up plane with volunteers and measure the difference in time taken to evacuate.

Imho, with poor visibility and a cross wind, it could be very easy to line up on left edge of runway , and with the MD80's high nose up attitude and low wing tips, hit a wingtip and veer to the left sharply. Things happen quickly, and the debate on old aircraft, passengers deplaning with luggage, etc., makes me laugh. This airport was designed a long time ago and for DC3s and flying boats. Shut this place down already. CC, Similar event in Canada a few years ago.


http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...q6ZK2Zdpod05DA

Someone mentioned BA. Didnt know they went to la guardia!

Cooperplace, Without much direct insight regarding Kazakhstan, your well-intended safety video might be possible and culturally accepted in Almaty In New York, London, Sydney, etc., not so likely. With no ill intent and a bit of well intended sarcasm, which film ratings would apply in Kazakhstan?

In many western or westernised countries, the likelihood of even a cartoon showing passengers perishing in fire would not wash. Whether it would help is left to one's perspective, but the suggestion reminded me of videos while awaiting a driver's license exam in mainland China. Good intentions perhaps and all sorts of devastating death and destruction, but unclear positive results in practice.

Wasn't the BA reference to Braking Action, and a suggestion it was either good or not so good based on prior landings? Otherwise, I'm fairly sure BA does not land at LGA unless there's an emergency with the plane or at JFK or perhaps EWR.

I've flown MD80's for 15 years, often in winter conditions and on slippery runways.

One thing during during approach briefing is the threat analyzing. It is paramount in winter conditions or wet runways, that the issue with tail-blanking is mentioned. The only way to get back directional control is un-reverse and forward idle.

I'm not speculating that this happened here, only stating a big difference with this particular aircraft type versus Airbus and Boeing with wing mounted engines.

BA
 

The BA reference was to activity at EWR.

As for pax taking their bags:

I wonder whether the pilots or CC of this aircraft took their bags ...?

I've never been in a slides-type evacuation (must fly more so the odds catch up). But it seems to me that some are more urgent than others. In this case, without having been on board, I'd guess that the situation wasn't of the "Get out NOW NOW NOW or you're dead!" type. The aircraft was in pretty good shape (considering), the crew may not have perceived imminent danger of death – in fact, there was none – and the evacuation may have been calm rather than rush. In that situation a SLF, looking out of the window at the climate, might be forgiven for getting her coat out of the overhead if she wasn't wearing it! And, of course, her handbag.

Then, of course, there are other factors for SLF to consider: they might anticipate long delay in getting their bag back if they didn't take it with them; and they might have read the frequent reports of passengers' baggage being looted after crashes.

OldLurker,

Just so you know, if we are ever on an aircraft and the slides are thrown and a emergency evacuation is ordered, you will be getting of my way if you are farting about looking for you hat coat, bag etc. If that means i have to go over the top of you or through you to get out that is exactly what will happen.

It is called a emergency evacuation for a reason, it is never routine, if the cabin crew are instructing you to get off, that is exactly what you should be doing, no passenger on that aircraft was capable of making an assessment on the fire risk etc. I would rather be on the tarmac feeling cold than frying to death because some selfish sod was trying to wrap up warm before exiting.

Skeleton, I'm sure you'd feel fully justified in bashing everyone out the way whatever the circumstances.

Now, back to real life and the incident actually under discussion: did you read my post? Does it occur to you (1) that the cabin crew may have assessed the situation as not requiring the sort of panic in which pax like you kill others to save themselves, (2) that a passenger standing in the aisle waiting for those ahead may have time to get something out of the overhead without delaying you in the least?

Very Few Bags Seen, But...
 

Be for the Asiana smash at SFO, little was heard about SLCs taking their CO bangs with them. In that case, the pix of same were shocking and they raised the issue. As a general, vague cultural thing, Asians are more focused on the "Me and My Stuff" issue than are Western PAX. (Sorry, but true). Again general, Europeans and North Americans are more likely to leave the bag and Get (TF) out, perhaps knowing that time is important. Others, less familiar with CRASH scenarios may take their time, collect their goods and consider it a different, but ~~routine departure from the aircraft. Sad, not intended as racist, but painfully true. In any genuine evacuation, a few of the reported 'minor injuries during evacuation,' result from balkers (sp?) getting pushed from behind. Sorry honey... There are 50+ people behind you and none of them will wait while you decide whether the slide may run your panty hose or damage your new, oh so special skirt. If you do not move on your own, we'll help you and it may not be gentle. With your precious new purse - or with out it, get out of the [impolite word] airplane, NOW!:ugh::{
On the professional side, I have no clue what went wrong and I refuse to speculate. NTSB will issue a preliminary report in a few weeks and a final report in a bit more than a year. Until I see that detail I cannot speak about anything other than generic, often idiot passengers. Again, if the slide ahead of you is clear and the FA says GO, you'd better do it. If I'm behind you and you do not move, we may slide down together, simple because I AM going.
Darn few Grandmas and Grandpas read this space, so please share the details with your relatives. If they get a nudge or a shove, of even hollered at while trying to make up their minds, remember that there may be 50+ souls behind them, waiting to use that same exist door or hatch. We'll honor your dignity and modesty most of the time, dear, but not today. Today. get your fragile behind down that slide, NOW!:eek: