Recovery on the way
 

Andrasz...you may note that indeed I did NOT advocate PILOTS shifting departure times, an authority not afforded the pilot at most airlines..operational control (delaying/cancelling flights) rests on the folks in ops...diverting once in flight however, is the prerogative of the Commander..

Right Way Up:

Don't know what model you operated but the 330 should "come out of the box" certified for RNAP AR approaches to 0.10. The other part of the equation is for the operator to get approval from its certificate holder to fly such approaches. That would including the requisite training of the flight crews, ground school and simulator and a specified number of 0.30 approaches on the line before lower RNP values can be used.

I can't speak for Turkey, but in the U.S. RNP AR approaches are not in the database until the approval process is completed.

Ironbut57, emphasis noted. My post was primarily to underscore the need for scheduling to understand operational constraints and flight operations to understand commercial needs. Without this understanding, sooner or later there will be a bunch of unemployed aviation professionals hitting the job market.

Am I the only one concerned about the 2 hour hold ?
Rather divert before you end up with insufficient fuel and having to land in bad conditions.

Geek

How do you know how much fuel they had left?

Agreed a timely decision to divert rather than being forced to make an approach under less than ideal conditions, is the way forward. However we simply do not know how much they had remaining, for all we know they could have had enough to return to IST :rolleyes:

RNP certified?
 

The aircraft is probably certified. However, as far as I am aware Turkey has not given approval to any carriers as yet, and no crew training has been done.

Anyone know if that has changed? Load of crews still do GNS approaches, even though no training has been given, and no requirements specified. They seem to regard the presence of an approach plate to be authorisation.

the need for pro's
 

In these times, the aviation industry is in need of professionals who can see accurately by merely looking at pictures pinpointing the culprit. Shooting down a colleague , alleging by assumption that "the presence of a chart" is that the AUTHORIZATION REQUIRED has been fulfilled by an unknown colleague, surely he is more valuable/professional than this unknown Captain. ................ I am sorry but I just have zero tolerance for crap like this, no matter what nationality the pilot is. I just hate pilot bashing full stop. It just happens too often in my opinion.

silvertate:


If management and the Turkish aviation authority were doing their job, and I have no basis to conclude otherwise, the RNP AR approach would not have been in the database unless the crew were qualified.

Unless someone has some hard information to the contrary, the presumption should be the crew was qualified and legal to fly the RNP AR approach.

That's a big presumption, we have approaches in our data base which we aren't certified to use therefore we don't fly them.

Just because the approach is there it does't necessarily mean that that the crew are qualified to use it.

Metro and Ecam:

I presume you are not operating under FAA rules.

Probably not ICAO rules, either, in this respect. But, ICAO is weak.

Maybe they had lots of fuel. You are just making an assumption.

If I was a senior manager at Turkish Airlines I would be letting it be known that the 330 had enough fuel to fly another 10 hours when it landed . If it did !

Turkish Airlines and another carrier in Turkey both have the approval for RNAV AR.

Our crews are qualified, we have the Airbus certified equipment to fly RNP APP's but the the paperwork has been stalled at our CAA in tray for the last few months.
Very frustrating

Alright but what does that have to do with Turkish Airlines if the company you mention is another airline?

Type IV . He is defending himself against someone who implies that the AR approach cannot be in the database unless it was approved .

My apologies, I understood it as if another company didn't have the full approval that also meant that Turkish Airlines probably wouldn't either due to the presumptive and slanderous nature of most Turkish Airlines related threads.

Turkish Airlines has the approval for this approach , the aircraft and the crew were certified and they had the necessary sim training for this app to ktm

East West | Travel Blog by Kunda Dixit | Nepali Times | nepalitimes.com » Blog Archive » Disaster averted, unfolding disaster

Interesting read.

NB. I was not one of those making comments!