Near collision over Sweden
 

Russian plane has near-miss with passenger aircraft over Sweden | World news | The Guardian
My apologies if already posted

near by military standards differs greatly from near by civilan standards

"nearly collided with a passenger jet over Sweden"

"the incident in international air space was fairly serious"

They can't both be correct - which was it?

DaveReidUK

It was international space, between Sweden and Denmark but close to Swedish borders.

It is more and more common that Russian planes with different military uses fly around without transponders across the Nordics. Very disturbing, not only from an air safety view but also from the political implications.

Russian air force airplanes DO NOT HAVE western transponders at all !!!!!
They are flying BETWEEN western floght levels (as example at 31500 ft).
They say they are flying over NEUTRAL territories...
It is ONLY problem for the ATC, but not for civil airplanes (I hope)

Of course it is a problem, or do you think that planes get beamed into their cruising altitude and back down again?

Well maybe its time the Swedish military woke up and tried to identify inbound traffic on primary (military) radar before it enters "their" airspace?

Ehm, I believe it might be the other way around. ATC can't see the planes so as far as they ar concerned they don't exist. The civilian airplane that almost collides with it while climbing to its assigned altitude otoh might have found the information about its existence most useful. Poor pilots I guess would like a quick trip to the toilet to relieve the tension that springs from having a near-death experience along with the rest of the crew and passengers. One instance this spring had a separation of about 100 metres. While it may sound much, I'm sure the pilots still were, let's say, concerned about the situation.


In a futile attempt to try and stand up for my country I believe the military does its best with the equipment and personnel available. I'm sure though that now (reference: Swedish submarine hunt this fall) the whole world knows how ill treated the Swedish Army has been during these 20 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

It is with much embarrassment I acknowledge that our gouvernment has spent far more money on seriously destroying our educational system (did you hear about the last PISA report? We are behind countries like Vietnam..) and creating riots in segregated suburbs than anything else.

You would like to think that this fall's underwater vessel hunt has been a wake up call for everyone in charge but sadly this was not the case. We just had an election in Septembre, but the parliamentary situation has gone from bad to worse and we will hold a re-election this spring, in March.

Well, somewhere there's a primary radar that can see the target aircraft......

I get the impression, perhaps wrongly, that some of you underestimate the military defence networks and what THEY can see.

Well, it doesn't look like it saw much this time...

To see or not to see
 

Both the Swedish military and the Danish military are well equipped to detect those planes with primary radars.

One of our main task while scrambling QRA jets towards such "visiters", is to fly up along side of the plane in question and thereby make it visable to the civilian ATC agencies. This basicly works by the fact that we fly the QRA jets with their transponders on, in close proximity to "visiters". Both the Swedish and Danish QRA does that.

Only problem is that we have limited playtime, and since the IL-20 Coot A can hang around for hours, we need to leave him at some point, since we need to go home and refuel.

In both this incident and the one that happend earlyer this year, the Coot A was followed by either Swedish Gripens or Danish F-16 (or both) prior to the incident. Unfortunately it was left alone at some point due to the fighters need for more fuel, and that was when the incidents happend.

It is my impression that the latest incident was not as close a call as the earlyer event.

And then again, there is more airspace around the other aircraft:ok:

This is a political problem.

That's where the QRA gets hamstrung...

Maybe its time Sweden put its neutrality behind it and choose up sides.

So we , all of the western oriented free countries, better start building up our military AGAIN.

I might be completely wrong but I think there might be a system of relay's when one fighter is about to reach a low fuel state another one take its place. I might ignore issues like fighters availability, cooperation between 2 countries (one NATO member the other neutral) etc but I am ready to learn more.

Agreed, most of the Danish newspapers seem to be wondering why Sweden is making quite such a fuss about it.

I had thought about starting a thread about these incidents myself - it seems to be a general problem in North-West Europe these days. I'd have tried to choose a more general title.

Is there a similar problem in the Sea of Japan ?

With the Russian economy tanking under their current kleptocracy, it's perhaps unsurprising that the Russian government seeks nationalist diversions. Anyone remember Chechnya or Georgia ?

I would guess that say - a collision between an Il-20M and an A320 - would be portrayed in Russia as an act of "terror" or reckless brinkmanship by the evil West .

The incentive for the kleptocracrats seems to be to up the ante till something spectacular happens. They ain't flying.

Regarding interceptor range, maybe a Gulfstream would work better than an F16 ?

Quote...
Regarding interceptor range, maybe a Gulfstream would work better than an F16 ?


Is that the 'Special Missions' Gulfstream fitted with the 0.50 Calibres and Tracer Rounds?

http://www.gulfstream.com/images/upl...alMissions.pdf

Perhaps because it's part of a pattern that's been going on for a few weeks..

BBC News - Russia Baltic military actions 'unprecedented' - Poland

Do we give some credit to the Russki pilot....

... he would have known where the passenger aircraft was, wouldn't he ?