Originally Posted by Sunnyjohn
(Post 8595133)
It may be a little naive of me, but I am assuming that there is an understood protocol in these cases. Unfortunately, as it is, I assume, a military protocol, we won't be party to it, but it would be comforting (or not!) to know what the sequence of actions actually are.
CAA Safety Sense -Interception Procedures |
Post 9/11, shooting down a passenger aircraft that appeared to be under control of other than the crew and was heading for a densly populated UK location, such as for instance Canary Wharf, would be seen as the least worst option. 300 lives lost vs thousands.
Sadly we live in an age where those sort of decisions need to be considered. |
That fighter might provide options but not for you. You just became a pawn in a game and that fighter is there to blow you out of the sky if it becomes necessary. You're videoing your executioner.
In 2004 or so we inadvertently drifted into a prohibited area and were engaged by two fighters which came at us head on numbingly fast from 14 miles and only broke away at the last second leaving us in the midst of a turning 'descend, increase climb, descend NOW' type RA, both passed at a large rate of knots each side of us not very far away at all. No prior warning. We got the message. Not quite ICAO but rather effective. When they come at you like that you appreciate these machine's true purpose for the first time. They arent just pretty toys that grace airshows, they are massively terrifying, the absolute personification of sudden aggression, racing dogs of war which are on you before you can even react. |
I'm truly amazed that anyone who has lived through the last decade and a half has to ask what the value of a fighter escort on a threatened airliner is. How quickly we forget.
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QRA Typhoon Flight
I couldn't tell from the photographs, but I'm presuming this particular Tiffie was armed? It's a QRA jet allegedly so should have been.
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Well people ARE asking, Laarbruch. The only reason the authorities knew there was a suspect device is because the Captain called them and told them so. That conversation would hardly have taken place had it been a hijack. Without wishing to seem ungrateful I'm struggling to see what the Typhoon contributed, and I'd particularly question the need to maintain close formation down the approach.
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I would assume that the fighter pilot can visually check that the cabin is secure and the crew are indeed in charge of the flight. |
If there was any real prospect for trouble, why was this flight allowed to continue into Manchester, rather than diverting, as seems usual in such circumstances, into Stanstead?
Given that the escort might have ultimately had to destroy the escortee, why wsa it allowed to approach over densely populated Tameside and Stockport, with the triggering event possibly being a turn towards central Manchester, rather than over the relatively unpopulated northern Cheshire? I don't recall there being much wind around these parts today. |
The only reason the authorities knew there was a suspect device is because the Captain called them and told them so If there was any real prospect for trouble, why was this flight allowed to continue into Manchester, rather than diverting, as seems usual in such circumstances, into Stanstead? PS correct spelling is "Stansted" |
Originally Posted by judge11
(Post 8594706)
.........and the Typhoon is achieving what? Genuine question.
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It has just been reported that the arrested passenger has been sectioned under the Mental Health Act.
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Given that the escort might have ultimately had to destroy the escortee, why wsa it allowed to approach over densely populated Tameside and Stockport, with the triggering event possibly being a turn towards central Manchester, rather than over the relatively unpopulated northern Cheshire? I don't recall there being much wind around these parts today. |
It was put in a holding pattern over the peak district whilst ascertaining the validity of the threat on board. It would surely not have been permitted to proceed had there been a credible threat of any kind whatsover, so the cynical inference is that the purpose of the continued escort was to achieve lots of publicity. Not saying publicity is bad - if it shows the other bad guys that the interception capability is there, all good. |
Passengers were complaining that they only found out what was happening through tweets and calls from people on the ground.
What would have been achieved if they had been told? OK, they found out when they shouldn't but that is life. "This is your captain speaking, we have been told there is a bomb on board, but don't worry. If it explodes there is nothing to worry about as you won't feel a thing. We are attempting to land at our destination as normal. Don't panic, sit back, and watch the pretty aeroplane flying along side." Yeah right. Seriously though, how did the passengers react? Press reports are fairly restrained in what they said. Did many passengers not find out? Did those who did just accept it? |
Originally Posted by TopCat
Not saying publicity is bad - if it shows the other bad guys that the interception capability is there, all good.
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@mickjoebill
cracking a light stick at night = covert? lmao :=:=:ugh::ugh: |
Not saying publicity is bad - if it shows the other bad guys that the interception capability is there, all good. Military shows of strength have always been historically used to imply both ability and willingness to use said strength, but these days the link to the latter isn't so clear. I know I'm contradicting my earlier 'all good' - I don't think it's that obvious either way. |
Personally if I was a passenger and saw one of our Eurofighters on the wingtip I would feel quite reassured.
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Well people ARE asking, Laarbruch. The only reason the authorities knew there was a suspect device is because the Captain called them and told them so. That conversation would hardly have taken place had it been a hijack. Without wishing to seem ungrateful I'm struggling to see what the Typhoon contributed, and I'd particularly question the need to maintain close formation down the approach. On the need to maintain close formation down the approach, you'd have to ask a QRA pilot, I'm not sure. Maybe it's part of procedure, or maybe the pilot decided on the spur of the moment to carry on with the escort as a kind of visual deterrent. |
Quick question.
I know that there was a situation ( a couple of years back now) where people around the Bath area were complaining because they lost some panes of glass when a Typhoon QRA intercepted a helicopter, and had to go supersonic to get there. Just wondered, I believe that supersonic is usually prohibited over land, are QRA allowed to ignore this rule, or whether it would have to be authorized "per job" as it were? |
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