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-   -   Air India Birdstrike KEWR (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/543505-air-india-birdstrike-kewr.html)

SawMan 14th Jul 2014 01:27

Air India Birdstrike KEWR
 
All OK but blew some tires on landing. Apparently ingested a bird into left engine shortly into flight which caught fire causing a
return.
Flight lands safely after bird strike sparks fire

Air India flight returns to New Jersey airport after bird strike | Reuters

CV-580 14th Jul 2014 02:55

Air India 777 egine fire
 
The stories all relate it was not a bird strike that caused the engine fire. Perhaps you might wish to change the story heading.

Hotel Tango 14th Jul 2014 08:43

What with the other two UNITED incidents, the 777 is having a bad week.

atakacs 14th Jul 2014 10:18

I would be surprised that a bird strike would trigger an engine fire on one of those mighty GE90 (maybe a bird flock.. or they were just very unlucky)

DevX 14th Jul 2014 11:01

QUOTE: I would be surprised that a bird strike would trigger an engine fire on one of those mighty GE90 (maybe a bird flock.. or they were just very unlucky)

"Mighty GE-90"? No engine is bomb proof and it all depends on the cycle life of the engine, what power it's at, the size of the bird(s) and where the fan assembly is struck. ;)

oliver2002 14th Jul 2014 15:04

'She added that the flight bound for Mumbai had multiple blown tires that may have been caused by the brakes overheating.'

A 77W with fuel for a 14h flight landing about 20min after takeoff may have been a bit heavy too?

VT-ALR - Air India - Aircraft info and flight history - Flightradar24

dkatwa 1st Aug 2014 09:18

sounds like a fantastic job by the flight crew

How an Air India Flight Made an Emergency Landing in US After its Engine Caught Fire - NDTV

Private jet 1st Aug 2014 09:35

The only way I know of that a birdstrike can cause an engine fire is if it causes blade(s) separation, which then goes through the casing and severs a fuel or hydraulic line (hydraulic fluid will burn but not very vigourously, it goes like sticky brown treacle). They shoot chickens into the intake at max N1 during development testing to make sure this doesn't happen.
[There was a story years ago that a frozen chicken was accidentally used once, I don't know if that's an urban myth though]

susier 1st Aug 2014 10:24

Quote: 'What with the other two UNITED incidents, the 777 is having a bad week.'


Spoke too soon there :sad:


The article states bird strike was ruled out, but is there any indication of the cause of the fire yet?

DevX 1st Aug 2014 12:23

QUOTE: "The only way I know of that a birdstrike can cause an engine fire is if it causes blade(s) separation, which then goes through the casing and severs a fuel or hydraulic line (hydraulic fluid will burn but not very vigourously, it goes like sticky brown treacle). They shoot chickens into the intake at max N1 during development testing to make sure this doesn't happen.
[There was a story years ago that a frozen chicken was accidentally used once, I don't know if that's an urban myth though]"

Your wide of the mark in the whole of your post:
1) The first stage compressor (fan assembly) on a high bypass ratio gas turbine shouldn't penetrate the fan casing otherwise it doesn't get its type approval certificate. Certification tests are carried out during the engine's development stage to ensure this criteria is met. Some engines have high tensile steel casings, others are wrapped with Kevlar.
2) Hydraulic fluid burns extremely vigorously at 3000 PSIG in mist form typical of when a line ruptures. Make that 5000 PSIG on B787 engines.
3)Chickens most certainly aren't used to certify engines ergo the 'urban myth' is exactly that and an utter load of tosh. Birds of a breed consistent with FAA/CAA requirements are raised within a specific time window prior to test and humanely euthanised prior to being weighed and used. This type of testing is a very exact science as there are various requirements to meet. ie. amount of birds in one shot, weight of birds, placement on the fan and combinations of all these.
Of course no amount of testing can account for the extraordinary conditions sometimes met in service, but the engine manufacturers try their damnedest to cover most eventualities.

vfenext 2nd Aug 2014 12:33


1) The first stage compressor (fan assembly) on a high bypass ratio gas turbine shouldn't penetrate the fan casing otherwise it doesn't get its type approval certificate. Certification tests are carried out during the engine's development stage to ensure this criteria is met. Some engines have high tensile steel casings, others are wrapped with Kevlar.
Countless examples of uncontained engine failures. Just cause it's part of the certification process doesn't mean it can't happen.

DevX 2nd Aug 2014 13:03

And that's why I said shouldn't penetrate the fan casing. We all know there are extraordinary exceptions that happen in the real world outside of certification requirements. :ugh:

lomapaseo 2nd Aug 2014 14:28

Still there is no confirmation that an external fire (Other than out the tailpipe) occurred in this incident.

Appears that the incident was within typical pilot training experience

scoobydoo44 2nd Aug 2014 16:05

Air India incident
 
I remember attending an incident involving a b777 a few years ago where a bird strike caused the engine to flame and smoke initially on take off , then cause severe vibration , followed by an emergency return to LGW . On return an engine inspection revealed 3 or 4 fan blades had failed. I think geese were to blame for this incident .

Wannabe Flyer 8th Aug 2014 00:08

The aircraft seems to be sitting at maintainence at EWR. Any reason they have not gotten her going as yet?

Ngineer 8th Aug 2014 10:44


Countless examples of uncontained engine failures. Just cause it's part of the certification process doesn't mean it can't happen.
You could probably start a new thread on this topic. I totally agree, there are plenty of examples of uncontained N1 failures (and other stages). I have personally seen one N1 that let go on a 747. The blades existed through the nacelle and peppered the aircraft with shrapnel. In fact one piece would have penetrated the fuselage had the frame not been directly behind the skin where it impacted.

There are also plenty of fools that will blindly deny that uncontained engine failures do occur. I am not suggesting that it happened in this instance, only that it should not ever be disregarded as all engines must pass " Certification tests" in order to gain a type approval certificate.


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