Spain sees the light, France next ?
 

Prohiben utilizar el español en las comunicaciones aeronáuticas en España



Sorry for "Google Translate", but, reading this, it seems the light is only a faint glimmer of hope, still a few hurdles to pass.




The Spanish Air Safety Agency (EASA) is intended to prohibit by law the use of Spanish in communications between aircraft and towers and air traffic control centers in Spain and implement English as the operating language.

Given this, the main and pilot associations Spanish air traffic controllers, among which are the Bar Pilots, the Spanish pilots' union (SEPLA) Airlines and the Trade Union of Air Traffic Controllers (USCA), have expressed rejection of this future law on the grounds that reduces operational safety.

In this sense, the management believes that the pilot of inability to speak Spanish "can reduce situational awareness" of the crews and drivers, resulting in less safety.

Since Sepla recognize "convenience" to use English even consider that "should be used only in those situations where operational has involved a foreign aircraft that does not know the language," as recommended by the International Civil Aviation Organization ( ICAO).

For this reason, the two groups will be affected by the plan have sent a letter to the Director General of Civil Aviation, Angel Luis Arias, and the director of the (EASA), Isabel Maestre, considering that no "should be implemented so generally in all situations. "

Also complain that there is evidence of conducting a risk management analysis or recommendation thereon by the Study and Analysis of Incident Notifications Air Traffic (CEANITA).

Different employers have to be explained within the expert committees, composed of members of the signatory organizations where the needs that must be implemented in the Spanish airspace in relation to security are analyzed, "as countries come environment of our country. "

Meanwhile, the aviation authorities have requested the support of the various Spanish airline to introduce the English-only, before the change in the rules for this measure is backed by law.

They'll probably go on strike now! :uhoh:

If this is implemented it will be done so kicking and screaming. Operating into the likes of BCN and MAD with no one listening out and everyone talking over everybody else would be comical if it wasn't so frustrating. Situational Awareness is largely guesswork, however I doubt much, if any, consideration is given to it by Spanish operators who religiously keep to their mother tongue. Their airports, their airspace, their rules seems to be the general attitude.

There is ZERO chance this would even be considered in France.

I have some sympathy for those who want to keep the ability to speak Spanish: ATC comms are one thing, but if you have a an unusual emergency, or maybe a potential terrorist incident, the last thing you want is to be discussing it in a foreign language.

If that's the case then nobody is going to argue if you revert to your own language but for everyday communication it should be English.

I suspect France will never change neither will Russia or China!

I think we accept far too much incompatibility in aviation eg metres and feet!:ok:

Good job it's not standard to use Spanish or I would never have been able to fly!

May i remind you that french is the official aeronautic language.
So all pilots and ATC should be speaking french.


So it's normal that it won't apply in France.

Flight Safety
 

For Flight Safety purposes, English should be the ONLY approved language for ANY comm, in ALL countries worldwide.


Flight Safety should be the ONLY concern in this matter.

Speaking of Greek, I have a colleague, who is ex-Helleniki Aeroporia and by his own admission between all the training he went to in the US and all the time he spent here otherwise, his own English is by now much better than his Greek.

But seriously,


Here in Türkiye, it's also a problem. However, ATC do their very best to speak English and as it takes forever to communicate something in Turkish, due to the lack of technical wording for that language, nearly all Turkish pilots are happy to use English too.


I find, that where a non standard request is needed, it's often quicker to ask my F/o to ask in Turkish and translate the reply to me.


It works O.K. Typing this on a Turkish keyboard is, however, a nightmare!

French for Airbus flight manuals..... Recall some light hearted discussions around here of French language aircraft flight manuals.....:}

It was considered in France for CDG airport with planned implementation. Can you believe that a separatist provincial government in Quebec was lobbying and successful in stopping it.

Two Brits died in a ground collision between and Shorts 360 and an MD-80 some time later with language as part of the cause.

Dream on.
 

Fat chance that this long overdue safety initiative will ever get traction!

Dream on, whatever next? The Yanks using correct ICAO R/T phraseology, discipline and order within Spanish ATC, cheap fuel in Italy, ramp agents in Brazil that you can trust, CAKOK in Beijing?

My understanding is that it is considered unsafe for a transmission to be translated into english from the local language by the person transmitting, then translated back into the mother tongue from english by the person receiving, which could give rise to misinterpretation of instructions or clearances, particularly clearances.

I don't have a problem with this as for example, I would prefer the traffic I see on TCAS to know to which level he/she has been correctly cleared without any confusion, instead of everyone else "on freq" hearing about a level bust in perfect english.

Not ideal, but on balance I prefer the status quo.

And therein lies the nub of the problem. English-native speakers always shout that all communication should be in English, without ever having made the effort to learn a second-language themselves. If it is mandatory that all aeronautical communication be in English, that would kill off most GA in non-English speaking countries - as outside English-speaking countries most PPLs don't speak much English. Why should a French PPL be obliged to learn to speak English in order to fly around his own country?

My view on this is simple - in controlled airspace both local language and English should be acceptable. Outside controlled airspace only local language should be acceptable - and if you can't speak the local language don't go into uncontrolled airspace!

The problems that I have seen arising in France are due to pilots flying around in uncontrolled airspace using English - thereby not being understood by local pilots.

Trim Stab that is completely besides the point. Yes it is a happy coincidence that the language of aviation is English and that has fortunately led to monolingual people such as myself being able to have a foothold in the industry but there needs to be standardisation. The rights of a native of any one particular country to be able to fly around his country speaking just their native language are not sacrosanct and are quite frankly irrelevant.

The cold hard fact is that multiple languages on an R/T frequency significantly degrades situational awareness for those not fluent in the language concerned. This has DIRECTLY caused incidents and been responsible for loss of lives and continues to have the potential to do so. How you can overlook this is beyond belief. It's small minded and petty to regard it as a laziness issue when in fact it is a critical safety issue irrelevant to what languages people studied at school.

I am not "overlooking" this issue. I am a native English speaker, but have made a lot of effort to learn French to a bilingual level (I have ICAO level 6) and also German, Spanish and Italian to approximately ICAO level 4 standard. When flying in uncontrolled airspace I always use local language - or else I don't venture into uncontrolled airspace.

I find it arrogant beyond belief that many English-only speakers expect every aviator around the world to learn English - just so that English-speaking pilots can blunder around in their uncontrolled airspace. Do you really expect (for example) every swiss glider pilot - many of whom rarely if ever venture out of their own local valley - to learn English just so that you can fly into their valley?

And therein lies the point; you seem to assume that all the people with level 4 or above English are "fluent", and we know this is far from the case. So you are saying that the SA of native English speakers is more important than that of people who speak any other language. Good luck with that argument!

Flight Safety
 

As I posted before; The ONLY argument in this matter should be FLight Safety.

But what do you do?
When during an International meeting between heads of states, EVERYBODY gives their speech in English, and ONLY the president of FRANCE uses "son francais". That was the most arogant ( or incompetent ) show ever seen on TV.

And the very same thing happened (with a different president of France) just a few days ago during the WW1 celebrations in Normandy.

How hard-headed can one be? ?

I love France, it is a nice place to live in, but on some issues? ? They have to wake up and let go.

To improve air traffic situational awareness for everybody in the air and on the ground, only a single language should be alowed for ALL comms.

This should have been mandatory from day 1 of international aviation.

Ps: I speak 4; Nederlands, Frans, Duits en Engels.
(Dutch, Francais, German, and English. )

BizJetJock now you are just twisting my words in order to make an argument, which is ridiculous. I do expect that anyone wanting to fly should learn English BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE RULES. Yes it makes it fortunate for me but that is a happy accident because I just so happen to come from an English speaking country. It would be the same with any other language chosen. The basic argument is the same for as just pointed out, it is a flight safety issue.

Trim Stab, good for you for learning a few more languages, I am genuinely envious of you and wish I could have done it myself. But don't attempt to relate that to the aviation world because the need for one universal language stems from a need for standardisation and therefore safety. It does not and should not respect the desire of individual nationalities to communicate in their native language for their personal comfort.