This thread is prime evidence in how Europe's airline industry has gone down the loo. You don't recognize harm to you when it stares you in the face. You would rather save a euro on a cheap ticket on a marginal airline than protect the established carriers that train and maintain by the rules.

Outsourcing dilutes your product, it only panders to the short term fiscal term.

cactus


If you'd spent some time at previous and current threads about the likes of Ryanair and Norwegian you'll see "we" (i.e. many european pilots) recognised and have been very concerned about the impact of the LoCos for years.

What's with the "You"? Not me or many of our colleagues, I'd rather walk than use the likes of FR. However the european travelling public are now hooked on cheap tickets and don't give a stuff about established carriers - why should they? As for a political solution - well our lot follow the votes and the money and know it would now be electoral suicide to interfere in the european air travel market...(no I don't like it).

Having just spent a couple of weeks flying around America on a few "established carriers " all I can say is they all appear to provide close to FR service to me.

Speaking of inflight service - Norwegian is doing some things right, they're profitable (unlike eg SAS, their competitor and flag carrier in the home market, which just announced another huge loss). Some of their cost-cutting measures are innovative, and ok. Eg from what I understand on their new 787 they only accepts card payments for inflight purchases, food or drinks. No cash handling. Every seat has a touchscreen with a card terminal (based on amdroid, google's free operating system. Probably another cost saving measure, instead of expensive proprietary IFE technology). No paper menus. No asking pax what they want. Want food or drinks (beyond what you prepaid) click on the screen, chose from the menu, swipe your card, and cabin crew get a notification. Want an amenity kit, like on real airlines? Push an onscreen button and swipe your card (25 usd...). Wifi on some aircraft/european flights (surprisingly, free). Power plugs for all seats. USB outlets. Young fleet. Not all they do is bad. Some loco concepts are interesting. Locos are here to stay anyway, cant put the toothpaste back into the tube. I don't see a reason to vilify everything NAS does. But they should be able to offer decent terms and conditions for all employees.

Deptral
 

Good points well made, Norwegian customer service is up there with many legacy carriers in Europe and it's little wonder our American cousins are crapping themselves frankly.

Money wise all I can say is that it is a good package on short haul and most would be very happy if the contract was a permanent position, the fact that so many of our pilots choose to go on 80% contracts says volumes

From what I've read I think I'm correct in saying that NAS can now fly the 787 out of London next month for a time period of up two years without further approvals

June pax figures will make interesting reading, I've never know the flights so full across most of the net work

I think that's being unkind to Ryanair to be fair.

Total rubbish. How do you define "marginal" airline? Are you suggesting the pan-European carriers are not compliant IAW...? Do you have any evidence for spouting this baloney?


Protecting the established carriers - every regional airline I've been on in the US, bar Virgin America, have been total rubbish. Old aircraft, uncomfortable seats, poor service (the last DL flight I was on, the cabin crew member at the back of the ERJ was using his phone during the boarding without a care in the world) and ageing and unorganised terminal facilities.

To clarify DL (Delta) does not operate any ERJs. The ERJ may fly aircraft with Delta livery and the ticket may be sold by Delta, but they are all operated by a contracted independent regional carrier. That carrier may be owned by Delta, but it is not Delta.

Actually to correct my previous post, that occurrence was actually an American Eagle flight operated on a Bombardier CRJ. Totally wrong then!

You bet!!:ok:

Please immediately inform EU authorities of those illegally based FAA registered aircraft on your soil - no doubt they will be chased away or impounded. I will do the same with the "illegally" based EU-registered aircraft on my side of the pond and we will be even. :}

BenThere

I last flew Delta propper between JFK and NCE about 6 months ago and I also experienced a crew member using their telephone during boarding whilst supposedly manning their door.

I would put Delta above their legacy competition but they have a way to go to compete with the likes of Virgin America, JetBlue or indeed any European or Asian carrier.

I think unprofessional service rendered by individuals can be experienced on any carrier, making it anecdotal.

By 'compete', I'm assuming you're not talking about size, revenues or profits in comparing the airlines you mention, Shanwick x 2.

It's a Delta product, hence, it's Delta.:=

I find it hard to believe people here are saying the US legacies are are better than the likes of Ryanair. After all that Chapter 11 BS ten or so years ago when they were LEGALLY allowed fire thousands of employees without honouring their contractual obligations to those same people. How many of you guys and gals based in the US personally know somebody who was financially gutted by chapter 11 employers?

I'm all for legislators protecting the rights of the little guy on the street, but congress should look at it's own back yard too

I don't think 'better' was an intended word here. I don't think you can even compare one with another. You can only compare airlines which offer a similar type of airline service - whether it is Virgin America or JetBlue in the US these are low cost airlines which do NOT provide network-like connections through the US. Comparing them therefore with Delta or AA or United .. makes absolutely no sense.

Severe case of protectionism masquerading as self induced tunnel vision here, and American CC employed by NAI know it only too well, perhaps the only Yanks willing to admit it mind you.

That's true. Delta is accountable. But the discerning traveller knows the difference.

The equivalent in the UK is "administration" when essentially, unless you can find a buyer (or a football club), there is no second chance. Your credit rating becomes dire and its virtually impossible to borrow money - its an 'insolvency event'. I use a football club example there - they've essentially been allowed to go into administration, clear the debts, start afresh, overspend and accumulate even more debt which they can't afford and the vicious cycle starts again. Everyone suffers apart from the 'brand' which doesn't change.

Connectivity is important, but so is profitability. There are two many pointless/unprofitable routes operated by US majors. 1000+ aircraft is an obscene number of airplanes you have to pay for. And as a result, the whole product suffers.

US Congress Moves to Block Norwegian Longhaul from US Expansion
 

For all the EU jocks up there; it's not that nobody wants them (Norwegian) to fly the routes.. But they are cheating the system! Even though the flight crew are 'based' in BKK, they are mostly Northern EU pilots living in Northern Europe.. Not in BKK! They commute to OSL/ARN/CPH to start their work schedule. Pay package on those contracts are well below the average contract on NAS. no benefits no taxes.. So when legislation catches up with them, guess who holds the short end of the stick.. (Agreed, when accepting a scheme like this.. Know the consequences, just like RYR). Low cost tickets get to be low cost over our backs, we are paying for it! All of us.. sooner or later!!