Actually, current Navy Regs, Chapter 10, Section 2, Paragraph 1031, Authority of Officers Embarked as Passengers, states: 'The commanding officer of a ship or aircraft, not a flagship, with a flag officer eligible for command at sea embarked, shall be subject to the orders of such flag officer.'

I believe the last enlisted U.S. naval aviator retired in 1981. :eek:

Like you, I would prefer a naval aviator or maybe even a Marine naval aviator but, in a pinch, a Bone driver would do. ;)

I agree. And, years ago I would consider some of the banter here about legality to be nonsense in an emergency situation. However, the feds are increasingly compliance and documentation oriented it seems. I find myself thinking more CYA and 'how would this look at the hearing' than thinking about the safest, most efficient way to operate the aircraft.

Hope the captain is back to work after the one year medical observation period and the FO and B-1 pilot have better careers than mine! :ok:

See this news story for a less hyperbolic account of what actually happened.
Iowa airman, nurses aid crew after pilot heart attack

The dramatic opening line of this 'less hyperbolic account': 'The story begins like the beginning of a script for a bad 1970s disaster movie.' :D

Thanks for sharing this, it is good to see the stories of the medical professionals who were involved.

Hope Mark Gongol gets his airline job (be careful what you wish for Mark ;)).

And the 707 IIRC ?

Absolutely, what a lot of garbage has been publisher here from people who clearly know nothing about it, BOAC's comment about Al Q waiting to strike when a pilot had a problem, and just coincidentally placing a fake Air Force pilot on board, should have answered all stupid comments about who is allowed on the flight deck now.

If I'd ever had a similar problem I'd have taken any willing warm body who was able to do what I asked, preferably somebody with some experience if available, even if only a trainee microlight pilot who might at least be able to use the radio if I asked him to !

My reply would have been - Fantastic !
As far as the "regulations" are concerned, I recall advice given to me as a young co-pilot by an "old" Captain viz... If you ever have to break the rules just be damned sure that you can justify your actions when summoned to the Subsequent Court of Enquiry, if you can - then go ahead.

If "The Feds" throw the book at the F/O for breaking security protocols -no, I can't go on, words fail me.

On the other hand ......... I was initially hired to be the 3rd pilot on a 5 man ( yes it was only men in those days, don't start that argument again ) flight deck, (Flt.Nav and Flt. Eng included ) so if the bean counters are so confident that modern airliners are "safe" with only two crew up front, why did the F/O need any help, couldn't she push all the buttons, send out a Mayday, re-programme the transponder, make sure the body next to her wasn't going to fall over the controls, initiate an emergency descent, land, park, undo her seat harness and unlock the flight deck door without help ? Only kidding ! but you get the point, is all this "progress" safer, or just making more profit for someone ? She did a great job, pity it was necessary.

Exactly. Well said!
 

ExSp33db1rd,

I agree completely. What could be better than a guy who knows how to fly, B-1 pilot would certainly qualify in my book too.

:ok:

When it all goes wrong and the pressure is on for a relatively junior young lady it must have been a great help to have a calm and competant assistant to reduce the workload and provide moral support.

A good job well done by all concerned.

Has there been a determination as to her seniority? Seen this aspect repeated but not substantiated.

I don't know anything about the UAL FO's background or experience either, so I wouldn't be happy with characterizing her as a a "relatively junior young lady" unless I knew that to be the case. Makes her seem like some cadet MPL from one of those European pay to fly schemes. United has done some things in the past when they "needed" to recruit women, but that was quite some time ago.

For those who might not know it, getting hired as a pilot at a US major usually requires significant previous turbine and command experience. Brand new FOs usually have in excess of 5,000 hours total time and previous jet or large turboprop PIC time. They were pro pilots long before applying at United. Thousands of regional and bizjet pilots have applied, but in recent years only a few get an interview. Those transitioning from the military may have less total time but not always. Even the abyssmal first year pay doesn't detract! Our neighbors to the North (Canada) don't have a history of hiring the inexperienced at the majors either.

So until I know otherwise I'll presume that the FO in question was fully qualified by any reasonable measure and asked for another pilot to assist only because it's the most appropriate thing to do under the circumstances. Apparently she knew how to do her job and the AF pilot sat in and assisted as directed by the PIC. (temporary). ALL FOs are expected to assume command and safely complete the flight when required. I hope she reads some the comments here and has a good laugh! Thanks for living up to your duties!

Folks,
There is a lot of "sexism" in references to the "young lady pilot" UAL F/O. The implications being she was some simpering weakling who needed help because she was female.
That she was employed by UAL says a lot about her pre-UAL experience and competence.
One such "young lady" F/O of my acquaintance, before joining UAL, was a USAF A-10 pilot, last time we spoke she was flying F-16 in her local Air National Guard. Significantly, she topped every gunnery and bombing competition, in which she partook.
As to the command decisions taken by the F/O ( now Pilot in Command) in this thread, there is nothing to criticizes, and everything to praise, and I hope any male pilot would have done exactly the same thing.
Indeed, on the basis of what has been reported, everything was straight out of my old airline Emergency SOPs for pilot incapacitation.

WTF has that got to do with it ? Unless she was under initial training -in which case there may well have been another pilot around anyway (?) - she was assumed to be capable of taking over if the Captain dies - isn't that why we have two pilots - or is the F/O now just a "Captains' Assistant" ? ( like the future crew of a Captain and a dog - the Captain is there to feed the dog, and the dog is there to make sure that the Captain doesn't TOUCH anything !)

Calling for assistance is exactly what she was supposed to do, I recall being told that the incapacitated pilot -alive or dead - should be tied back against his seat for a start, and remember the BAC 1-11 Captain that was nearly sucked out of the window when it blew out at altitude, fat chance he would have had if immediate assistance had been locked behind an FAA "secure" door, he owes his life to non-flight crew hanging on to his legs throught the ordeal.

It hasn't a damn thing to do with it. Posters here are repeating it that she is junior as if it's an indication of a lack of experience. She wouldn't be there if her overall experience level wasn't relatively high.

I think you've been watching TOP GUN too many times.

U.S. Naval Aviators, particularly fighter pilots, are nothing like the character portrayed by Tom Cruise.

Neither Mr. Cruise nor his character, LT Pete 'Maverick' Mitchell, would last ten minutes in the real Navy. They are both the "wrong" one, but neither of them exist in the form of a genuine aviator, so you need not worry next time you get on an airliner.

First time I landed at Male, Maldives one night, nothing but 2 lines of runway lights in a black void of ocean, and as we rolled out I remarked that I hadn't enjoyed that one bit. A quiet voice from a supernumary pilot at the back of the flight deck said " now you know what it's like landing on a carrier at night!"

Why?. What help can I get from a total stranger? He doesn't know where we are, how to use the radios, how to setup the box, how much runway do we need, what is an unreasonable descent or speed profile for this aircraft, even where the checklist is located and what is a reasonable response to some of the challenges. He also probably not familiar with the airports we operate into, the terrain, the approach procedures or the ground layout.

What I need is medical asistance for the incapacitated crew member.
Navigation and wx info asistance from ATC.
A little bit of time to get my ducks in a row. Get the plates, set up the boxes...

Teaching someone how to operate THIS radio, then telling them what to say takes longer than pressing the PTT and just saying it myself.

A type rating course takes 1 month and as far as I know they dont give exemptions to ex military pilots. It is not rocket science but each aircaft is just a little different. Explaining those differences to someone unfamiliar takes an amount of time that I rather use to get medical help for my colleague a little bit sooner.

I am not criticising the FO, far from it (she became the commander and she did what she thought was best to a good outcome) , but my view is that anything other than a paxing company pilot, maybe another airline pilot rated on the same type, is probable going to increase rather than reduce your workload. As for moral support, we can get that after we land.

Each to his own I guess, you can only play it on the day the way the chips fall on the day, anyway, not a problem that's going to bother me any time soon.

Enjoy.

You're kidding. Anyone working for a large airline climbs into the cockpit with total strangers all the time. Flying with complete strangers is part of the job. Of course, the other pilot you've never met is trained by your own company. However, having been a commuter most of my career, I have observed many other operators flying aircraft I was rated in as well as other models. Guess what, there is a huge amount of standardization in the way people operate airliners, at least in the U.S. Sure, a 707 pilot wouldn't be able to program a 767 FMC, but that's not what you're looking for. If nothing else, even a flight attendant might protect you from an in flight collision. That's why many operators, including the one I used to work for, considered pilot incapacitation and developed a procedure exactly like the one this squared-away F/O used.

In this case, the very first thing the F/O did is arrange for medical assistance. After that was taken care of, she did the smart thing, not the macho thing or what some pilots are obviously unwilling to admit;i.e. "I don't have enough self confidence and command authority to let someone else into the cockpit because they might overwhelm me."

Sure she did the right thing. I get that a B1 Mil pilot would not be first choice but it's worth remembering that coincidences do happen and if he did nothing else he was the last hope should the F/O become incapicitated.

Mozella, in this instance there was a capable FO and a decent but not especially relevantly qualified pilot that could give some useful backup. But consider some airlines and their 250 hour wonderkids, or god forbid MPL graduates. Put a meek cadet (and I see some of those as well as the confident ones) into the scenario and things can change. That might not necessarily be a bad thing - I have doubts over a small proportion of FOs' ability to handle an incapacitation scenario with anything adding to the pressure, like a tech or weather issue. The point is that things might not turn out as easy and measured as this case.

How ridiculous,


'Calling for assistance' in this scenario is NOT what we are trained to do, we are all qualified to operate these aircraft, in an emergency like this, single pilot to a safe landing.


Since when does a military bomber pilot have the credentials and / or experience to 'assess' a civilian jet transport pilot operating an aircraft they are completely unfamiliar with and not qualified on in a totally different environment than what they are accustomed to ?


They would be more trouble than they are worth.



It's as ludicrous as a 737 Captain replacing a B1 Commander on a bombing mission.



Better off on your own, i'm not blaming the FO, he or she had their heart in the right place I just think they forgot their training and made a mistake.

Well I can't see the problem in having another experienced Aviator sitting by your side in such an event. Just to make sure you don't forget to put the wheels down under stress if nothing else!!


Well handled I say, the FO did what she was trained to do and completed the mission safely.


What's your problem?????