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-   -   Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost.html)

doubtfire 11th Mar 2014 20:22

What other flaws then?. It just seemed to me a coincidence that the aircraft turned left by a turn of the hdg knob by 90 degress and descended 10,000ft, again a full turn left of the Alt knob. If the flight deck door was not compromised then the flight deck initiated that action for what reason? If decompression was not an issue then why no comms. If suicide was the reason then why fly for another hour especially with the pax watching the in-flight map and not one person making a phone call.

wiggy 11th Mar 2014 20:22


we now have admission from officials at last that they tracked MH370 to the Strait of Malacca!!
I thought it was an admission that an aircraft of unknown type may have been tracked.


doubtfire:


What other flaws then? It just seemed to me a coincidence that the aircraft turned left by a turn of the hdg knob by 90 degress and descended 10,000ft, again a full turn left of the Alt knob.
Well one other is that the 777 Rapid descent procedure as described in the Boeing FCOM/FCTM is not the same as the procedure you detailed for "your airbus"....

JFZ90 11th Mar 2014 20:27

Could an unlucky un-contained engine disc failure explain this?

Looking at the damage to the main spar of the qantas a380, it seems possible that if a similar failure (trent 900) occurred through a smaller spar (assume 777 is smaller than a380) and the trajectory was unfortunate and it took out say the top half if the spar (you might recall the a380 went through middle) then total and unsurvivable structural failure of the wing is plausible, no?

monkou 11th Mar 2014 20:27

MH370
 
Check Reuters News for Malaysia Military man's quote re tracking it to Strait of Malacca.

doubtfire 11th Mar 2014 20:28

Wiggy.
Can you tell me what is the Rapid descent procedure as listed in the Boeing FCOM/FCTM?

Yancey Slide 11th Mar 2014 20:30


Looking at the damage to the main spar of the qantas a380, it seems possible that if a similar failure (trent 900) occurred through a smaller spar (assume 777 is smaller than a380) and the trajectory was unfortunate and it took out say the top half if the spar (you might recall the a380 went through middle) then total and unsurvivable structural failure of the wing is plausible, no?
That would likely leave a large amount of debris floating in the water as the craft broke up would it not?

Chronus 11th Mar 2014 20:31

Accepting that the aircraft turned from its intended course and commenced a descent from its assigned altitude would suggest deliberate crew action. The reasons for this may only be attributable either to unlawful intereference with flight or some technical malfunction(s). We are informed the former is most unlikely. This therefore must leave only the latter.
The nature of technical malfunction(s) must have involved a total loss of communications and in a short period of time thereafter escalated to limited control of the aircraft so as to prohibit further changes in course and altitude. The safe option under such circumstances would have been to keep clear of high terrain by remaining over water. At least dawn, by which time the crew may have become incapacitated leaving the aircraft to continue on its predermined course over the water, until its fuel was exhausted. Such actions would have taken the flight well beyond the areas within which SAR operations have commenced. No use looking in the wrong haystack for the needle.

Chill 11th Mar 2014 20:32

Can you land in the dark?
 
Andrasz

WMKC (KBR) might be just long enough to crash in but the PCN wouldn't accomodate a 777 assuming that you could land it on an unlit strip in the dark - the airport is closed after midnight (actually earlier) so no ATC, no aids except for the VOR and an aerodrome surrounded by kampung. Nice black hole approach... :rolleyes:

WMKN (TGG) on the other hand is longer, supports a B747, is perpendicular to the coastline (KBR is inland), but also closed at this time and in the dark.

V1

That's the new Rescue406 (has a different cap on the bottom - I've not seen one for real). The previous model in your Canadian pic and indeed on some MAS aircraft has water soluble tape holding the antenna down so in water it should release. There needs to be some electrolyte in the water - pure water will not trigger a cell reaction, neither will alcohol and the operating instructions warn against this - for this reason for land ops there is a plastic bag strapped to the ELT with salt in it so you just have to add clean water... or pi$$ in it)... but we're getting off topic.

monkou 11th Mar 2014 20:33

MH370
 
Appear Reuters News has the headline but the main page content has now been removed!! Australian papers running it. Says MH370 was tracked to Strait of Malacca where it was low level and then signal disappeared. We're being fed morsels.

NWA SLF 11th Mar 2014 20:37

Having read here and heard from additional sources about how it is impossible to stream continuous data, even a limited amount, is prohibitive due to bandwidth limitations, raises questions in my mind. Many of the planes here in USA have the satellite bulge for passengers using in-flight WiFi. Knowing the bandwidth I can use through my satellite Internet provider when I am streaming movies or uploading pictures how can it be that coded compressed coordinates transmitted lets say every 10 seconds, or even every minute, can use so much more? My upload speed to HugesNet right now is 12 Mbps. We know the aircraft can transmit anomaly information as the aircraft is in flight - but so can all of the earthmoving equipment the company for which I work. Granted we only set machines to transmit 4 times daily unless an anomaly occurs but we are talking machinery that doesn't move that fast. So if lets say 100 passengers aboard are using their iPad all at the same time without problem how can transmitting must relevant position, altitude, velocity information absorb so much bandwidth?


When the Ethiopian 787 had its fire at Heathrow and the cause was determined to be the ELT, did they not issue an order to disconnect the device on all 787's because in the present day this information was not considered important on large commercial aircraft? Did the directive go out on other aircraft fitted with the same Honeywell ELT? I may have missed comments regarding this although I think I have gone through every comment on this thread multiple times.

Sober Lark 11th Mar 2014 20:43

With so much technological advancement, perhaps this event is the watershed moment for FDRs and CVRs as we know them.

747-8driver 11th Mar 2014 20:47


Originally Posted by doubtfire
The only flaw in my theory is the transponder but lets suppose the PNF selected 7800 instead of 7700 in his haste.

"Your airbus" has a very special transponder having the digit 8 available...

Speed of Sound 11th Mar 2014 20:48


So why has everyone been searching Between Malaysia & Vietnam? If you were one of those searchers you'd be feeling rather PO wouldn't you? I mean how long have they known this - surely it just didn't come to light as of now.
It didn't come to light 'as of now'.

There has been SAR in the Straits for nearly three days now, based on an admission that military radar had observed a turn towards a westward heading. :rolleyes:

tdracer 11th Mar 2014 20:48


Many of the planes here in USA have the satellite bulge for passengers using in-flight WiFi.
Not sure which operators you're referring too, but the US based airborne WiFi I'm familiar with (Go-Go - used by Delta and Alaska among others) is ground based, not satellite based. It's also quite slow - similar to the old dial-up.

wiggy 11th Mar 2014 20:52

doubtfire...the rapid descent is laid out in a nice little diagram which I won't reproduce here, but in sequence the important part of the text is:

"Initiate turn if required using HDG/TRK SEL"
"Select lower altitude on MCP" "
select "FLCH" .......

Some operators teach changing the MCP altitude before the heading for "flow" purposes across the panel but in any event Boeing simply specify rotating two knobs without nominating the direction in the hdg case and without specifying the initial increment in either case, and then a third button to push to get the beast descending, you then refine heading, altitude ( and speed) once you are in the descent.

There's obviously a chance on a 777 you might choose to go for 90 left but it's not Boeing SOP, not in the manuals and as such a 90 left is not an automatic or conditioned response/setting if you train in accordance with Boeing procedures.

(Apologies to claybird who beat me to it)

covtom 11th Mar 2014 20:57

New Scientist - Engine Data
 
Two bursts of engine data before disappearance.

Fly26 11th Mar 2014 21:00

Chill
 
Also in support of WMKN there was a post a few pages back regarding people on/close to Murang beach hearing strange bang/turbine noises which coincides with the timings of the lost aircraft. On pulling out a map WMKN it sits jutting out as you said perpendicular to the coast just to the north of these reports, it would be a very reasonable diversion airport to aim for in the event of any major failures. (As long as it's not closed of course, I'm unfamiliar with the region). However being that close in towards land/people I would suspect evidence of the aircraft would have been more visible to find.

DType 11th Mar 2014 21:00

Disc failure unlikely???
 
One assumes (!) that it was not at take off power when it "vanished", and there is much less stress on most engine components at cruise power.

LASJayhawk 11th Mar 2014 21:04

Yancey, standby has its own power afaik. There is also battery power and an inverter in the event both generators, apu and emergency generator fail.

But as you start to loose power sources, loads get removed to maximize what's left to the things essential for the pilot to try and save the aircraft... That's why pilots windshield heat, even though your talking a lot of power, is one of the last things to go. Hard to land an airplane by hand if you can't see out the front. Or that's what the pilots tell me, anyways. :)

doubtfire 11th Mar 2014 21:05

Ok, then 7701 or 6700 or anything that was close to 7700. I`m just saying that the chances of a compos mentis flight deck flying for an hour an not making radio contact on vhf1 which will run of the battery is not plausible.
Therefore I`d go with either decompression or unlawful access to the flight deck. If no-one is claiming the latter then I`d go with the former.


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