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-   -   Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost.html)

Above The Clouds 22nd Apr 2014 12:52


Pace
I am amazed how in this day and age that a jet of this size can fly for so long undetected! Just shows that if you ever wanted to attack any of these countries they would have no clue about you!
I know that in areas if the world I have flown in Europe you only have to go 1/2 a NM off track and someone jumps down your throat!
Even in Africa you are giving constant position reports and estimates as well as talking too other aircraft so this is amazing !
Why ?
Only one satellite over the Indian Ocean used primarily for ACARs that was switched off, no radar coverage there either, limited primary radar coverage on the original route, you can disappear in Scottish airspace quite easily.

And of course flying in Africa, well you answered your own statement, they use position reports like so many places in the world because of limited radar.

Viscount43 22nd Apr 2014 13:15

As far as I am aware, ELB do not carry source ident. Perhaps this is something else ICAO should be looking at.

I don't think we will ever know....better wait for the Movie!!!

Zorin_75 22nd Apr 2014 14:09


Originally Posted by Viscount43
As far as I am aware, ELB do not carry source ident.

ELTs do, ULBs don't. No idea about ELBs. :rolleyes:

Carjockey 22nd Apr 2014 14:32


MH370 did not fly near any countries for much of its flight
We don't know that; MH370's actual flight path has yet to be established as a known fact and everything is based on theory at this time.

What we do know is that 370 deviated from it's original planned route early in it's flight. This was apparently not seen as sufficiently unusual to start alarm bells ringing immediately and I would suggest that the delay in raising the alarm meant that MH370 was effectively allowed to disappear, for reasons which are as yet unknown...

ComJam 22nd Apr 2014 14:42

I haven't yet seen anyone in the media ask the question: "When it "disappeared" and was apparently then "seen" on Air defence radar an hour later, why was no action taken to intercept and identify it?"

This is the first thing that happens in Europe, the US and most areas when an airliner "disappears" or even loses radio contact. Malaysia is said to have a very advanced Air Defence System and yet it took no action....why?

mixture 22nd Apr 2014 14:53


I haven't yet seen anyone in the media ask the question....
Somebody needs to discover the wonders of Google.

Yes the media asked, and yes an answer was given. Back in March according to some newspaper articles I've found... so no doubt already discussed a million times on this thread, suggest you go back a few pages and have a read. :cool:

BOAC 22nd Apr 2014 15:54


Originally Posted by PN
No threat.

- that is of great concern to residents in that part of the world. How can an unidentified non-transponding a/c flying over your territory be 'no threat'? Let's face it, they were asleep at the wheel and found it on the tapes.

Pontius Navigator 22nd Apr 2014 16:15

Define 'threat'.

As far as the theatre tensions are concerned I imagine that the military threat was assessed as low. The Comair threat negligible. A higher military posture unnecessarily expensive.

As far as the tax payer is concerned, if there are tax payers, tucked up in bed, the State apparatus is protecting them. They are probably unaware of how that is done.

Take UK, how many people know what air defence reactive forces we have and at what readiness? Do they know where they are? Do they know what the RoE are?

I imagine the answer is either a lemon or largely wrong. I am still not too far out but cannot pretend to know what our systems are.

rampstriker 22nd Apr 2014 16:30


- that is of great concern to residents in that part of the world. How can an unidentified non-transponding a/c flying over your territory be 'no threat'? Let's face it, they were asleep at the wheel and found it on the tapes.
Malaysia hasn't had a terrorist attack on their soil since the 1977 MAS653 hijacking.

rampstriker 22nd Apr 2014 16:53


- indeed, and the USA before 11/9? They too were 'asleep at the wheel', were they not?
Al Qaeda has no beef with the Malaysians.

PuraVidaTransport 22nd Apr 2014 18:12

It appears to me someone went to a lot of trouble to make the final resting place difficult to find. If that is the case, what are the odds the final act was doing something to induce an in-flight breakup, thus spreading wreckage over a vast area both on the surface and on the seabed..??

DCrefugee 22nd Apr 2014 18:23

Breakup
 

what are the odds the final act was doing something to induce an in-flight breakup, thus spreading wreckage over a vast area both on the surface and on the seabed
If wreckage was spread over a large area of water, it's likely some of it would have been found by now.

Either it entered the water largely intact and didn't generate much (if any) flotsam, or it isn't where they're looking.

500N 22nd Apr 2014 18:25

Pura

If that was the case, then I would suggest they would have found something.

look at the 747 that exploded just out from NY and the spread of wreckage.

I would have thought that the more break up mid air, the more floating debris on the surface that would have stayed floating and therefore been noticed at some point.

porterhouse 22nd Apr 2014 19:07


to induce an in-flight breakup, thus spreading wreckage over a vast area
In flight break up would not spread parts over a very large area, parts would land probably well within a mile.

rampstriker 22nd Apr 2014 19:20

There's little doubt that the engines would be torn from the wings in any controlled ditching attempt as in US1549. They would be on the bottom near the coordinates of the point of impact even if the fuselage remained reasonably intact.

captplaystation 22nd Apr 2014 19:23

Reading Teddy Robinsons post (10167 as I write) I am still of the feeling that

A - The "Authorities" are totally clueless, or B - They are totally clued up & doing everything to appear to be clueless.

For quite some time now, I am unable to decide which version is the reality.

susier 22nd Apr 2014 19:24

We are forgetting that there may well have been debris to begin with, but we were all looking in the wrong place, and a large amount of it will probably have sunk by now.


So perhaps it doesn't have to have been an entirely controlled ditching.


And what was left could well already be on a beach somewhere remote.


Let's not give up hope that we will soon have an answer.

rampstriker 22nd Apr 2014 19:38


Originally Posted by tdracer
Right, because the terrorists never target predominately Muslim countries:

I didn't say that. But terrorists apparently don't target Malaysia. If they wanted to they surely would have done so in the past.

Bali attacks were directed primarily at Australian and European tourists and most Balinese are not Muslims. Marriott targets were officially Americans and Australians.

Glacier pilot 22nd Apr 2014 19:38

Airspace and Radar
 
The Malaysian narrative supports a number of different scenarios. A steady state flight across Malaysia is one way to "evade" radar (by blending in) and evasive fighter pilot tactics are one way to cause someone watching radar to notice. Per MH370 first turn (Igari), Malaysia military radar might have noticed a offshore inbound unidentified target, but apparently it didn't. The next soonest time for a military alert would have been if ATC had notified Malaysian Air Dispatch and an alarm raised because of no contact . As soon as MH370 left Malaysian airspace, it was somebody else's business. The aircraft might have been seen paralleling borders by Thai or even Indonesian radar, but the aircraft might not have been 'noticed' unless it was headed to or over each's respective airspace. In effect, after 30 minutes this aircraft would have been off radar(and not a 'potential threat'), until and unless, it crossed another country's airspace.

MELT 22nd Apr 2014 19:49

The old generation ELTs prior to the introduction of 406Mhz ELTs were, I agree, notoriously unreliable.

However all those that are 406Mhz conform to new specs that were introduced, RTCA DO204 and Eurocae ED62, and spurious signals etc tend to be down to maintenance issues etc.

The type of ELT installed on the Malaysian aircraft is that used on many other Boeing and Airbus aircraft. It is a top of the range model known for the quality of it's construction. Yes, a ditching would certainly provide the de-acceleration forces required to trigger the "g" switch.

Serveral references have been made in the past to the 1992 Air Inter A320 Mont St Odile crash, and the fact that the ELT did not go off in this event. There is an extremely simple explanation as to why no ELT went off, since surprising as it may seem, no Automatic Fixed ELT was installed on that aircraft. Most likely because at the time it was not a mandatory requirement


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