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-   -   Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost.html)

XB70_Valkyrie 12th Mar 2014 05:38


Given the arguably chaotic S&R response thus far - with zero results - you'd think it might be worth at least one attempted ariel or surface sweep along that path... if not already too late.
It is possible the SAR response is orderly and logical and they're doing terrible job with the public information side of thing.

SICKorSKI 12th Mar 2014 05:51

Sat tracking
 
Does anyone know why in this day and age why an airliner would not have an ISAT system?
With nearly every offshore helicopter operator monitoring all flights in real time with a instant database cache of position reports its ridiculous to think an airline has no idea where thier assets are!

Also for the crew an instant flip of the switch to "emergency" to indicate distress!

Hopefully a wake up call to airlines to look at systems such a skytrac!

Teal 12th Mar 2014 05:53


The latest expansion of the search area vindicates my thrice deleted posts suggesting searching along the extrapolated IGATI - Pulau island track (basically extrapolate the last known track westwards until fuel exhaustion).
That, and post from @Tarzanboy most plausible to date....


What if MH370 wanted to perform an emergency landing for whatever reason. Close to IGARI point the crew entered a possible airport to land in their FMS which could be VVCT CAN THO with VOR "TRN", because this one has a 3000m runway which is close to the intended route ahead. But, there is another "TRN" VOR closer by, guess where: TRANG VOR close to the Andaman sea. The crew under severe stress executes the top TRN (closest by) in the FMS and the plane turns immediately to that point. Could this explain the hard left turn after IGARI point towards the Andaman sea?
I once watched a BA 747 turn 50° after an incorrect waypoint input. It occurred in darkness and the flightcrew were completely oblivious until asked to confirm their position (heading east to the South Pacific off the New South Wales coast when they should have been tracking to Sydney over land). I can imagine a crew under pressure easily making a similar mistake with no visual references to alert them to a navigation error.

XB70_Valkyrie 12th Mar 2014 06:01


Thats the most important question: What are they covering up and on whose behest?

In addition to cover-up, why are they misleading the entire world. They knew all the time that plane is not anywhere in or near gulf of Thailand / south China Sea. Then why did they mislead?
I certainly think there is some awful media relations work at foot there, but I've managed aviation SAR incidents (post Sep 11) where we could not disclose information from classified military assets that were being factored into our search plan. Some of these assets make the oft mentioned here "primary ATC radar" look like a joke.

We had to be circumspect to avoid a public disclosure rabbit hole... it was also an incident that was subject to a lot of media coverage.

I almost accidentally mentioned one element during a media interview, it would have created a major issue in terms of cross jurisdiction cooperation for the future. It is possible either their own military or foreign military has provided them information on the condition that the source and type of information not be disclosed, hence the skewed search area (from day 2?) with no explanation. The SOP is to say "we've received information from a variety of credible sources that has led us to move our search in this direction".

The standard SAR methodology is to work from your highest probability of detection areas down. It appears they are doing that. This is usually based on imperfect information, e.g. they have a military track but it is partial and may not connect with the ATC track (and therefore identity of a/c). Or they have clues that are credible but wrong, which misdirect resources.

Ironically we were going to be meeting soon with one of the government SAR departments involved in this search, I assume due to this incident those meetings will move out a bit. Of course I'm going to try to get the scoop on what went on (when all this is over), but it will be the very last thing I ask them in the meetings; I'm sure there will be reticence to discuss.

porterhouse 12th Mar 2014 06:02


The auto pilot in some Cessna Biz jets will detect depressurization and will automatically turn 90 degrees and descend and level off at 15000 feet.
No, it isn't designed to turn 90 degrees, it simply maintains 25 deg bank and Vmo all the way down to 14000 ft.

StormyKnight 12th Mar 2014 06:03


Originally Posted by Teal (Post 8368388)
I once watched a BA 747 turn 50° after an incorrect waypoint input. It occurred in darkness and the flightcrew were completely oblivious until asked to confirm their position (heading east to the South Pacific off the New South Wales coast when they should have been tracking to Sydney over land). I can imagine a crew under pressure easily making a similar mistake with no visual references to alert them to a navigation error.

Oddly the passengers watching the inflight map, would see the plane heading out to sea. Human mistakes are made, when the information they see in front of them they have mentally checked it off as OK. Once checked off, it takes fresh eyes or very good training to reassess the data to reconfirm it is actually correct.

XB70_Valkyrie 12th Mar 2014 06:07

NineMSN reporting Vietnam has suspended air search and scaled back marine assets until better explanation from MY:

Vietnam suspends air search for missing plane

rampstalker 12th Mar 2014 06:21

reported cracks
 
Just to put my bit over.

If the Feds issued an AD then they would have put a time line for it to have been done. For sure MAS would have stayed with in the stipulated time frame as would most responsible operations.

marconiphone 12th Mar 2014 06:22

'Now they seem to be saying that there is no radar record of the flight to the West of the mainland?'

No they aren't. They are saying there is no CONFIRMED record. Quite a different thing. The lack of confirmed information is why they continue to search over such a huge area. That's what anyone sensible would do.

nick murry 12th Mar 2014 06:26

Yes you can depress manually. About half an hour in a 772 at FL350 until O2 depletion Give or take. That's by memory as they have removed the figures from our manuals now .

No you must make a manual rapid decent.

StormyKnight 12th Mar 2014 06:30


Originally Posted by porterhouse (Post 8368426)
The masks would automatically deploy, why someone would not be donning one?

But they only last a few minutes, if the pilot stayed at altitude, they would have been next to useless in short time.

eire.ie 12th Mar 2014 06:43

Life Raft found
 
MISSING MH370: Hopes as fishermen find life raft near PD - Latest - New Straits Times

Would this be typical of one used in a B777?

Ex FSO GRIFFO 12th Mar 2014 06:44

Re deanm #2157... (Air Helios B-737 crash)

"The emergency oxygen supply in the passenger cabin of this model of Boeing 737 is provided by chemical generators that provide enough oxygen, through breathing masks, to sustain consciousness for about 12 minutes, normally sufficient for an emergency descent to 10,000 feet (3,000 m), "

Was / is the 777 any different..??

SOPS 12th Mar 2014 06:45

BBC is reporting just now, that oil rig workers saw a burning aircraft off the coast of Veitnam. Search aircraft are being sent to the area.

StormyKnight 12th Mar 2014 06:48


Originally Posted by deanm (Post 8368440)
@Stormy & Porterhouse: I note that on Helios 522, SLF O2 masks deployed, but were seen dangling unused by F16 chase pilots .....

Helios Airways Flight 522 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dean

Yes the Chemical Oxygen Generator lasts only at least 15 minutes....then they are empty. The Helios plane never attempted to descend & the pilot lost conciousness. The plane continued to fly on auto pilot at FL340 (34,000 feet) until fuel exhaustion.

Emergency oxygen system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

red_october 12th Mar 2014 06:49

MISSING MH370: Hopes as fishermen find life raft near PD - Latest - New Straits Times

There's a photo there as well - is this a standard kit on the T7? Port Dickson is on the Straits of Malacca. If this belongs to MH370, this could get rather interesting.

Tokyo Geoff 12th Mar 2014 06:55

MISSING MH370: Hopes as fishermen find life raft near PD - Latest - New Straits Times


PORT DICKSON: A group of fishermen found a life raft bearing the word “Boarding” 10 nautical miles from Port Dickson town at 12pm yesterday.
One of the fishermen, Azman Mohamad, 40, said they found the badly damaged raft floating and immediately notified the Kuala Linggi Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) in Malacca for assistance to lift the raft as it was very heavy.
"We managed to tie it to our boat as we feared it would sink due to the damages," he said.
When the MMEA boat arrived, the fishermen then handed over the raft into their custody.
However, a Kuala Linggi MMEA spokesman said the raft sunk into the sea while they were trying to bring the raft onboard.


Read more: MISSING MH370: Hopes as fishermen find life raft near PD - Latest - New Straits Times MISSING MH370: Hopes as fishermen find life raft near PD - Latest - New Straits Times

andrasz 12th Mar 2014 06:55


A group of fishermen found a life raft bearing the word “Boarding” 10 nautical miles from Port Dickson
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the photo seems to show a maritime life-raft rather than one used in aviation.

nitpicker330 12th Mar 2014 06:59

The location given by the Oil Rig worker relates closely to the position the Cathay Pacific crew reported debris in the water........

Bobman84 12th Mar 2014 06:59

It seems very disorganised by the Malaysian Government. Just reading below makes you shake your head at their incompetence over this incident:


Vietnam said it had halted its air search and scaled back a sea search while it waited for Malaysia to offer more detail.

“We’ve decided to temporarily suspend some search and rescue activities, pending information from Malaysia,” deputy minister of transport Pham Quy Tieu told AFP.

Asked about the claim that the plane had last been detected over the Strait of Malacca - suggesting it had crossed the entire peninsula - he replied: “We’ve asked Malaysian authorities twice, but so far they have not replied to us.

“We informed Malaysia on the day we lost contact with the flight that we noticed the flight turned back west but Malaysia did not respond.”

Malaysia’s air force chief denied telling a local newspaper that the aircraft was last detected at 2.40am on the western coast of the Malay peninsula by a military radar - a detail confirmed to news agencies by at least one unnamed military official.


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