DOVES we are in danger of violently agreeing; except why wait for an official view, what could they know about how you will behave in similar circumstances.

I wonder what is on the CVR of this flight (if it was not erased :) ) .. maybe interesting ... :)

I've heard 2nd hand that they had their radar on Auto and were avoiding what they saw on the radar. They said the hail area was not visible on the radar.

ATC Watcher

Not doubting what you say, and not wishing to teach granny how to suck eggs, but there are two different major controls on most radars of the B747-400 era.

The first is the 'gain' or the sensitivity of the radar to the returns received - for this to be in auto is quite usual and not to be criticised,

The second is the 'tilt' of the beam, which is under manual ie pilot control, and where on the B744's I flew, auto was not available. The tilt selected references where the beam is looking relative to the horizon and will vary in various flight phases, the beam itself being about 3-4 degrees wide. At TO, for example +10degrees might be appropriate, reducing to +2 to 5 degrees during the climb phase. In cruise flight, you obviously want to know what is at/around your level and so will point it lower than in the climb. At all stages thoough, you should vary the tilt up and down to build a better picture of the overall atmosphere. I believe that more recent developments provide automated 3D mapping for the crew.

So, whilst I agree that hail may well not provide a return in itself, then the hail is coming from some cloud structure that will, and that by using the tilt you should be able to 'see' formations worth avoiding.

http://s2.glbimg.com/CV3u3B9YwU7bBy7.../11/13/air.jpg

http://s2.glbimg.com/MfRsHwwtMAnDHfy.../13/dentro.jpg

http://s2.glbimg.com/qwy8l4n_oKPfrNJ...1/13/air-2.jpg

ATC watcher Good second hand !

They avoided weather along the SID , same weather avoidance on the way back after dumping .

Reading some Airbus documents on radar, 40 % of hail is outside the cumulonimbus , 60% inside. Dry hail has a "green reflectivity" looking as snow .

This can cure "jcjeant" " wish to read syndrome" ;)

filejw

Okay, a little confused here. What wind are you referring to? If it is the upper jet stream winds, that is a bit too much and unrealistic in my humble opinion. I've had upper winds in excess of 150 knots during the spring over the US (lower 48) which is uncommon, but certainly not unheard of.

As GF posted, the stardard is 20 miles downwind which I used for stardard garden variety style thunderstorms. But when a rapid moving cold front is moving across the country driven by jetstreams of over 100 plus knots with tops near FL500, I do give them more than 20 miles, more the better really.

So as you posted, giving them one mile for each knot of speed of the jet stream is great if you have the fuel and can talk ATC into such a large deviation.

I hope your not getting your threads confused;-) Big difference between flying through a hail shaft and flying a 4 engine airplane on 3 engines in cruise.

Regards

400dvr,

I think squawk 7777 might have been suggesting that flying a 3 engine heavy into another problem (like a Cb) thousands of miles later is a definite maybe and something which could be avoided by a return.

Especially when so many things can go wrong and those things are no respecter of being on 3 engines...

Murphy's Law?

Regards.

Dream Buster
 

Thanks for your reply. I did come off a little glib on my post in regards to 3 engine cruise but, I don't think I need to tell another professional pilot that one always considers his options during the cruise phase, weather being a big considerations. In my career I have had my share of long range 3 engine flights, most of them being engine out ferry's.