Portuguese MEP Accuses Air France to Make Training Flights With Passengers
 

"Mário David attended a flight that had difficulties in landing and found that pilots were being trained, using commercial flights."

Air France is using commercial flights to train Chinese pilots in return for money and jeopardizing the safety of passengers who paid ticket.

The link to the original news in Portuguese below.

Eurodeputado português acusa Air France de fazer voos de treino com passageiros - PÚBLICO

I thought there was a whole range of P2Fly airlines doing this across Europe. What is new? Politician just found out? :ugh:

Be great if they banned it.

Now that would make line training very interesting indeed!

easyJet and Ryanair have been doing that for years, the passengers demand it. They want low fares so the airline have to economise everywhere they can and putting young inexperienced kids in the right seat who pay for the privilige to fly an aircraft with 150 paying punters in the back is just another way of cutting cost.

This is the norm with the locos, not the exception.

What do you mean by training? A fairly wide scope word. If these pilots are rated but not experienced and were to only carry out PNF duties it would seem acceptable. However, if they are carrying landings with pax aboard I would certainly be uncomfortable with that prospect.

Also, passengers don't "demand" that the airlines utilize these pilots. They want low fares which is a totally different expectation. How the airlines meet that customer need is a management decision.

Red thats utter rubbish even if you don`t run a pay to fly scheme you still have to line train them.

Normally they come out of type rating then get given to a line training captains until they are up to standard. Then they are let loose with normal line pilots.

All done with pax down the back.

Normally with first job commercial pilots personally with me they do the majority of the landings until they are up to standard.

Normally they arrive with an hour and 6 landings in the aircraft when the line trainer starts working with them.

:ugh: This is not a loco/legacy issue, not a P2F vs sponsored issue, and shows a gaping lack of understanding.

How would anyone complete line training without conducting training on revenue flights. Do they really think that any airline is going to conduct 80-odd sectors per new pilot in empty airliners. Would this politician be happy for his ticket price to 5 or 6 figure sums to fund this. Drivel.:rolleyes:

Does AF employ Chinese pilots?

They have a deal with sichuan an china southern if i'm right and they do some kind of advanced type rating with way more hours, way more landings during base trainings and a certain number of line training flights untill they're ready to go back to China.

These Chinese Cadets are fully rated to fly on these jets, what's the big deal ?

He probably wouldn't care, as its OUR tax money paying for his expenses :yuk:

Such aggression!
 

My, my, Mad Jock you are an aggressive person! "Red thats utter rubbish.."

Quote "Normally they come out of type rating then get given to a line training captains until they are up to standard. Then they are let loose with normal line pilots."

Your statement is quite true but leaves out the Safety Pilot bit.
My experience with a legacy carrier (B747 & L1011) is that with a brand new type rating the newly qualified F/O flies around 10 sectors with a Training Captain, but with a Safety Pilot in the jump seat - just in case the Training Captain turns his toes up.
The Safety pilot is then dispensed with and the F/O continues his line training with the Line Training Captain, as you described.
I can tell you that if the Training Captain became incapacitated on the first few sectors without the Safety Pilot, things would become very exciting!!. Most F/Os with previous experience would be able to handle it, but a 250 hour ex cadet or even worse a MPL holder, I seriously doubt it.

So Mad Jock omitted to mention the safety pilot, big deal, I'm not sure who is being aggressive here but this thread seems to be about quite normal practise so not sure where it will end. Boeing v Airbus?

Best Practice?
 

Manthrust, my remark about aggression was in response to Mad Jock's sharp retort to Red Mud's posts. A straight forward alternative view point is just not enough for some.

Yes, the thread is about normal practice, but is it "Best Practice"?

I am not sure if training Chinese cadets on board of Air France flights is "quite normal practise" , I am not sure at all.

Not only the flying you need to worry about
 

These Chinese pilots may be able to fly the aircraft but once on the ground.......if they don't 'risten'.....then it's a whole new ball game!!:=

Unfortunate. However why do the various controllers have to speak so FAST ??
I always found the FAA controllers rushing their contact with pilots as if there is a race somewhere. That's not necessary and should not be done.
Not everyone speaks or understands the English language very well, so speaking slowly and properly will help.

Yeah, Safety pilots, I remember them, like the one they had on that Turkish B737-800 that stalled and crashed on approach into AMS some time ago, with the flying FO under training!

Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise...
Do the line trainers of these cadets speak English, French or Chinese since effective communication between the two pilots is essential for flight safety?

Fred,the yanks are by no means the pinnacle of aviation English...

Seems like Air France is going down the drain though:eek: