RYR 'forgot' to get landing clearance!
 

Ryanair pilots 'forgot' saftey procedures | UK | News | Daily Express

Which may explain why ALC TWR were so pi$$ed off with RYR a few days ago when they self positioned for a 3 mile final instead of 10 miles as instructed.

I would say more of an insight into the state of Spanish ATC than a RYR bashing opportunity.

What is this 'listening on emergency frequency on finals' thing? An SOP?

No, SOP is just during cruise. Someone got it wrong.

Well, since my first solo in 1957 I have tried unsuccessfully to be a perfect pilot and I have now admitted defeat.

I have to admit that on two occasions in my professional career I have got airborne without actually receiving take-off clearance. Anyone else out there done the same?

A lot of these events involve a frequency change such as Ground to Tower or Approach to Tower.

I can remember coming down finals on a very busy night at Cologne. We were told to change to Tower. No answer. (It transpired that the tower had suffered a power failure). We made a go-around and reconnected with Approach.

Subsequently, the chap in the Tower indignantly told me that he had been flashing a Red Light at me with his Aldis lamp. I suppose that would have covered his a*se at the subsequent board of inquiry but how in God's name would he expect us to have seen his Aldis lamp signals?

Most pilots have no idea where the tower actually is on a major international airfield and who the hell would look for it anyway at night?

I am sure that the captain involved is very embarrassed.

Let he who casts the first stone.....it must be wonderful to be perfect.

That'a an outrageous recommendation, you really don't want to be monitoring the emergency frequency during a critical stage of flight like the approach and landing!

I wonder how Ryanair will handle this with the Pilots concerned.

RYR forgot to get landing clearance
 

I was an ATCO for over 30 years & witnessed several aircraft (from well known airlines) land without receiving a clearance. On every occasion it was not a big deal. There was no other a/c on the runway (or cleared onto the runway - & I kept a good look out for any incursions). I just let the lander continue to touchdown without making a fuss.

In these circumstances I did not feel the need to admonish the pilot, simply to remind him of the need to receive a clearance before landing (once he had landed). I think safety was served just as well by this procedure rather than going into print on the occurrence.

Perhaps, by doing this, the pilot was embarrassed sufficiently to make sure that he never did it again !

Well said JW411, as long as there are humans involved there will be human error. It gets right on my moobs when the pen pushers expect the same level of perfection from real-time actions as they can achieve from 2 years of post-incident analysis.

kcockayne- don't forget to add to your measured and sensible approach that Spain and RyanAir are not in love.

When 121.5 in Europe stops being a chat frequency then maybe pilots won't turn it down - it's bad, very distracting and getting worse !

Is it just the UK that retains ALDIS in the Tower? I remember giving a Big Airways aircraft a steady green and then spending ages convincing him that he HAD had a landing clearance from me. He was determined to file on himself(he had set 118.5 instead of 118.3).Mind you that was before NATS became today's NATS .


There is more to this than meets the eye.:hmm:

RYR forgot to get landing clearance.
 

BOAC

RYR & I are not in love either !

But, that goes for the company & NOT the pilots.

We all make mistakes. Hopefully, we learn from them & don't repeat them. I find that this process is improved by not castigating people for honest mistakes - if at all possible.

Thankyou for your comments.

Well, I simply cannot imagine that anyone with half a brain is still listening to 121.5 on Box 2 below 10,000 feet in today's environment.

It is quite simply totally ridiculous and bizarre to expect anyone flying anything apart from a hot-air balloon to be monitoring Guard when approaching or departing from an airfield.

I would consider such advice to be a serious flight safety hazard.

Maybe I don't even have half a brain, but despite your imagination, some of us (often IFR in Class G) never get as high as 10,000 feet but are expected to listen out on 121.5. ;)

Most incorrect usage we hear comes from airline pilots inadvertently using the frequency, i.e. they think they are on a different frequency, such as company ops, their handling agent at destination, or "Shanwick". No particular company seems to be the main culprit.

I don't turn it down, I flick the listen switch on the comms box to "OFF"; unlike turning down the rotary volume knob it gives a visual indication that it's been temporarily deselected.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Ryanairs procedures, I know there is a lot wrong with Spanish ATC in general and especially at ALC, at least at Malaga it controller on the job training monitored at ALC the guy on the radio at Andrewsfield has more idea what's going on.

With regards to 121.5 the only time I listen to that below 10K is outside controlled airspace or on simultaneous approaches at Paris.

LHR/LGW are very good, the Dutch are excellent in a relaxed having a spliff sort of way,but with the Spanish at times it like a Basil Fawlty sketch " it would be easier to train an ape"

The is a lot of bad blood between Southern European governments and FR but that's down to the boss not the drivers, you can't expect to get any lee way when you call the Spanish lazy tossers and your blamed for the melt down of their terms and conditions.

They realised the landing lights were not switched on during the after-landing checks? Tactical Ops now, is it?

No; I think I can answer this one.

We are constantly trying to make flying safer.

One of the good ideas that I came across in my long career was the use of landing/taxi lights to help us remember if we had take-off/landing clearance or not.

The way it works is this:

PNF: On receipt of T/O clearance, puts the Taxi Lights to Take Off. This can be a reminder/confirmation that take-off clearance has been given to the other pilot.

PNF: On finals, put the Taxi Lights to Take Off when landing clearance has been given (except when LVPs are in force).

My guess is that the FR captain was using such a system and that was why he was able to apologise when he realised that the lights were still to Taxi as he taxied in.

Herod:

Were you the guy that I nearly hit on Upavon Gallops one night with just three goosenecks on the strip?

When I last flew for said Company they did have an SOP wrt use of landing lights when cleared for take off or cleared to land.

Also, as has been said previously, the SOP for 121.5 MHz was to monitor during cruise.

Notwithstanding that one would consider use of 121.5 MHz in the event of Comms Failure on normal ATC freqs.

The newspaper article is full of the usual journo sensationalism so nothing new there.

What is the problem? :confused:

In our carrier we always have 121.5 tuned on VHF 2.

We are grown adults so when the radio gets annoying WE TURN IT DOWN A BIT UNTIL THE IDIOTS STOP CHATTING. :mad:

Don't forget that all ATC units have the ability to transmit on 121.5 if they need to. Plenty of crews have been located this way and I'm sure a few received landing clearance as well. :ok:

So in my opinion it's good Airmanship to listen out on 121.5.

It's not rocket science people for gods sake...:ugh::{