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-   -   Helicopter Crash Central London (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/505369-helicopter-crash-central-london.html)

Pace 16th Jan 2013 11:54

Going off the press reports the crane Jib came out at an angle and was obscured by the building.

Again the press reports indicate that the crane was only lighted when out of use at night but not in the day.

The pilot was diverting due to the weather and more than likely in very poor viz had his full attention on the building.

Again it has been reported on the BBC that concerns were made about the Crane lighting a few months ago.
A building is a solid visible structure a Crane is not!!!

As in most incidents its easy to blame the pilot but maybe such high Cranes also take the blame and regulations regarding lighting such temporary high and invisible structures should be re looked at with far better and more visible lighting attached to them???

Golf-Mike-Mike 16th Jan 2013 12:25

An earlier post said the tower would be 500ft high (ie AGL) when completed then speculated about the height of the crane on top. An earlier post said the NOTAM had the obstacle (building + crane + jib) at 770ft AMSL, ie above sea level (so more or less Thames level). By some of the early news coverage the fog was up and down at the time but definitely capable of obscuring the crane and even the top of the tower according to eye-witnesses. The 500ft rule allowed the pilot to come down to land for his diversion to Battersea but horizontal viz would have been poor and on a divert he may not have had that particular NOTAM to hand and he hadn't yet made radio contact with Battersea it seems who may have been able to warn him. Very unfortunate circumstances.

lurker999 16th Jan 2013 12:33

Viewing Single Post - NeoGAF

Eyewitness account from vauxhall station. Says top of crane not visible to him from the station.

stuckgear 16th Jan 2013 12:34

GMM,

looks like all the holes lined up this time.

:(

fireflybob 16th Jan 2013 12:38


The 500ft rule allowed the pilot to come down to land for his diversion to Battersea but horizontal viz would have been poor and on a divert he may not have had that particular NOTAM to hand
Golf-Mike-Mike, I understand your sentiments but there is a statutory requirement to cover "any alternative course of action which can be adopted in case the flight cannot be completed as planned" although I agree in the case of an unscheduled diversion this might be somewhat challenging.

(Note am not saying Commander in this case did not comply with this requirement)

Quote from UK ANO:-

A commander must, before taking off on a private flight, an aerial work flight or a public transport flight, take all reasonable steps so as to be satisfied of the matters specified in paragraph (3).
(3) The matters referred to in paragraph (2) are that:
(a) the flight can safely be made, taking into account the latest information available as to the route and aerodrome to be used, the weather reports and forecasts available and any alternative course of action which can be adopted in case the flight cannot be completed as planned;

HEATHROW DIRECTOR 16th Jan 2013 12:42

<<Remind us what the "Floor"altitude is for the London Terminal Manoveuring area.>>

The airspace around the site is Class A - the London Control Zone - extending upwards from ground level to meet the TMA.

riverrock83 16th Jan 2013 12:46

The Battersea AIP has the tower at 332 feet (updated October 2012). Yet I believe it's roof height is 594 feet.

Without the NOTAM - if he was map crawling he would have thought he was safe.

ShyTorque 16th Jan 2013 12:47

Wrong obstruction. It's not yet in the AIP.

col ective 16th Jan 2013 12:55

This is very sad. I am a bit confused about the location though. If the helicopter was going from Redhill to Elstree I'd have expected him to route Banstead to Barnes and then try to go north. In that area he'd be talking to Heathrow but it is to the west of Battersea and Vauxhall is to the east, beyond the heliport. Given that the crash site is south of the impact with the crane I wonder whether he'd decided to divert and turned right along the river, realised he'd missed the heliport and done a turnback across the river - all the while being to busy to change frequency to Battersea.

As already mentioned the Heathrow trace is very acuurate (I have also been reminded of my ever so slight divergence from the approved route) so they will no doubt be able to provide something. As an aside, the maximum permitted altitude on the London QNH along the river to the west of Battersea Heliport is 1000', to the east as far as Chelsea Bridge it's 1500', as near as damn it agl heights. The helilanes rules state that helicopters must not fly below 500' separation and I think it's a 1km minimum visibility, but pilots must endeavor to fly at the maximum altitude for the sector.

jayteeto 16th Jan 2013 12:57

500' clear could be horizontal, think of it as a bubble. This DOES NOT apply for t/o and ldg. He may have started his approach.
Has anyone considered that if he was diverting and had been handed over by heathrow, he would have to retune his radio and be heads in for a few moments. How long between handover and impact? I stated earlier, when all is going to plan it is high workload in the lanes, something unexpected is tough to deal with, even in good weather. Battersea is not the easiest to spot at night if you are not familiar, lookout could be concentrated down and not ahead. So there are a few scenarios, all speculation.
God bless those who died, only the pilot himself will really know what happened, we can only guess.

riverrock83 16th Jan 2013 12:58


Originally Posted by ShyTorque (Post 7635831)
Wrong obstruction. It's not yet in the AIP.

OK - so he would have needed the NOTAM to know about the building if he was map crawling.

ShyTorque 16th Jan 2013 13:02

I think it's already been published that he was diverting from Elstree into Battersea.

BOAC 16th Jan 2013 13:06


I think it's already been published that he was diverting from Elstree into Battersea.
- to me that is mis0information - he was in the wrong place for Batterea, was he not? Other reports suggest returning to Redhill.

ShyTorque 16th Jan 2013 13:10


OK - so he would have needed the NOTAM to know about the building if he was map crawling.
Yes, however it's quite unlikely that he would have been map-crawling at that stage of the flight.

ShyTorque 16th Jan 2013 13:11

BOAC, no he was on a perfectly normal routing to Battersea, if travelling from Elstree.

BrummyGit 16th Jan 2013 13:22

ITN just posted the following:

"The pilot who died today after the helicopter he was flying crashed in London has been named by sources as Pete Barnes."

Also being reported by Sky News

Swiss Cheese 16th Jan 2013 13:26

There but for the grace of the gods....
 
Battersea (London Heliport) closed today out of respect. They said:
STATEMENT FROM LONDON HELIPORT ON VAUXHALL HELICOPTER CRASH
Just before 8am today a helicopter crashed in central London close to Vauxhall Bridge.
The helicopter involved in the accident was not destined in to the London Heliport.
However, we received a request from Heathrow air traffic control to accept the helicopter, which requested to be diverted due to bad weather.
Earlier in the helicopter's journey the pilot had been receiving an air traffic control service from NATS. The heliport never gained contact with the helicopter.
The Heliport will be closed for the rest of the day

My question, as only a PPL H on an EC120, is was he cleared in to land at Battersea, and if so, should he not have been at circuit height, as even the extended circuit was to the west of the helicopter?


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