No not at all. Just suggesting that 'they' took the same amount of gas regardless of weather because it costs very little to carry it.

That was 'their' logic, I didn't agree with it.

A slight expansion of the thread away, from RYR in particular, and back to the old cherry of manual competence. In the old Cathy at Kai Tak I thought a visual approach was part of the command pass/fail criteria. IMHO any competent captain applicant, who would have to prove that, should be able to have an a/c at 5000', 220kts, 10nm out at 90 degrees to the RWY in severe CAVOK, i.e. visual, wind calm. They should then be able to make a visual CDA/LDA onto either rwy; their choice. Overhead left circuit or turn immediate right for left downwind on the other rwy. PAPI's as the only aid, or perhaps not. i.e.. a MK.1 eyeball approach hand flown. That's what was necessary in some Greek islands in 80's, and indeed any European airport which might have had only an NDB or VOR aid. Nothing's changed in the expected competence of a pilot, but it's no longer tested. It wasn't tested then, it was norm on the line. The only test was if you spooled up before 1500' or levelled off with power on you bought the crew beers. It focused the mind. Being competent at pushing the buttons is also a required skill, bit it should/must not be at the expense of the basic foundations of aviating. I still think we are the last insurance policy for the pax and they expect us to be able to control the situation when 'windows 95' decides to take a holiday. Equally they expect us to avoid falling into self-dug holes, but when we do, to climb out quickly.

Well said, Alex. 10/10.

That is a different topic. The point of my post was about getting people to THINK about the logic. There was NO LOGIC in the example I quoted, was there? It still costs no extra in relative fuel cost terms to carry extra but why do it if it is not needed? There are still people around who will add on 'a few hundred' (or more) for good measure without thinking why. They are the ones causing this problem.

Rat - a fine summary of the world as it is and how it should be.

I agree with you and I'm not defending the 'carry extra just 'cos' lot.

I'm only suggesting that they thought they'd take extra because they thought it didn't matter if they did. That was their logic, logical or not.

- absolutely, and I suspect 'they' still do. Hence perhaps the need for scrutiny - and education?

"Life on the Line" (#205) makes a depressing reading ....
Minor correction: there are presently no airports in Poland equipped with ILS Cat3. EPWA still has only Cat2 ILS.

Life ? On the Line
 

Yes – sounds like a fairly normal stressful few days. However, there is an antidote. You are the Captain. I well remember my transition from the right to the left seat and I was lucky. It happened at the time when most of the Captains were still the old wartime breed (doesn’t matter whether they were the winners or the losers). They told me that almost everyone will lean on you to do this, do that, change your mind, do what they want. I won’t repeat their exact words, but they all added up to F...O... with plenty of dramatics to bolster the whole scenario. Wonderful to behold.
This stood me in very good stead going frequently to Moscow in the days when their ATC tried to tell you what to do when confronted with major thunderstorms or almost every other problem. I always did what I wanted, not what they demanded. When delayed by security, I always told them to ring Crew Control and tell them why the flight would not go on time. When leaned on by despatchers not to take so much fuel, I told them to fly the aeroplane and I will let Crew Control know.
A military background helped. When you are entrusted with authority and learn to use it properly, gnats nipping your ankles might be a slight distraction, but that is all they are and they really add up to nothing. Be your own man!

I think this thread has been trampled to death ........any chance a mod if they exist can call a wrap here?