Where we are, not where we were.
 

MYT had over 35 aircraft 10 years ago, and whatever TCX were then called I guess they were not far behind. Now together they will have less than 30 next year. They are still mostly running the same old aircraft so the reduction is not due to larger types.

If the holiday company started a new charter airline today they could cut costs by at least 35%. FTL, salary linked to productivity, and new and serviceable aircraft that departed on time would all contribute.

No union to look after the 'good old boys' at the expense of the rest and no manager 50k plus bonuses would also help. Managing to trigger the bonus never helped airlines linked to holiday companies.

Nobody is blaming anybody, it is just the way it is now and unless significant moves are made in the right direction it will not be viable to continue with in house airlines.

As for quality of the product, please do use your search engine! Easy and Ryan totally trounce TCX in age of fleet, quality of product, on time performance and value. Customers of TC it seems do not look forward to flights with TCX.

Oh do get your prejudices sorted, that's not the way it is. Which particular piece of history do you come from? There are no 'good old boys' on different Ts & Cs in Thomas Cook and no manager's bonuses of that size.
All of which questions the validity of the rest of your post. As to the title of your latest work of fiction, what colour is the sky where you are?

Zoarath

Nail, head, miss! In-house airlines provide a majority percentage of a tour group's lift, getting their customers to their holidays. Changing TCX for a newer model doesn't alter the fact that due to rubbish commercial decisions by the tour operator, less lift is now required - hence a smaller airline. The locos probably wouldn't end up wanting too much of their summer capacity taken up with other people's passengers because the work is so seasonal and makes the retention of the aircraft and crews over the winter a major headache.

For tour companies that wish to keep control of their product from booking until the customer walks out of the arrival terminal at their home airport there is no better way to go than your own airline. You only need to look at the furore surrounding the recent "Monarch" incident and subsequent bad press to see that flagging out if not done carefully can lead to worse publicity as it is seen as endangering people to save cost whether such criticism is justified or not.

You'd be better drawing parallels between MYT and the current mess at TCX by considering how the banks did the same recapitalisation with MYT as they are now and look how that ended. Where is the large tour operator to buy the remnants of TCX? TUI probably wouldn't touch it with a barge pole - not enough margin for them.

Zoarath, have you the slightest notion of what c**p you're talking? The TCX CC have already invested a great deal of blood sweat and tears in saving the jobs of several pilots in the previous round of nastiness. Now they're having to do it again. At no time in either process has anyone at TCX accused them of looking after the "good old boys".

"looking after the "good old boys"" sounds like a euphemism for seniority which is the accepted industry practice.

Seniority is the way the industry works, rightly or wrongly, if you don't like it then you shouldn't have got into the industry.

I'm in the middle of the TCX seniority list and was affected by downsizing a year ago and will be again this time.

Not once have I ever thought that our BALPA reps were looking after themselves or any other "Good Old Boys" ahead of the rest of the membership (or the non-members, who should be grateful for the efforts and financial contributions of their peers).

I am thankful that I'm in a Company where we Pilots have collective representation; something to provide a counterweight to the management.

the best post I've ever read on pprune

well said Sir

Those not in BALPA might consider what they owe to the likes of xxx (you know who ...) for your good fortune.

Fantom,

Love the name, by the way,......lot of whiners at TCX who do not realise how much BALPA have done for them.
When challenged invariably come up with a pathetic excuse as to why they are not a member.
Never had a solid argument that stands up with reasoned discussion.
I have often said on my night DLM,s ... If you are not happy then please make a personel protest and give back all your BALPA negotiated pay rises over the last few years to charity

They go quiet.

Big Battles ahead at TCX.

Could be classed a union bully boy tactics at worst. At the very least highlights what I hate about certain BALPA believers! It's a personal choice leave it at that. That's a personal choice to join, leave and also create personal opinions about how BALPA behave, leave it to them. Try that tactic with me and you'll be very quiet quite quickly.

Chocalateracer
Unintentional irony at its finest!
When one is trying to object to "Union Bully boy tactics" shouldnt your reply have been a little more concillatory than "Try that tactic with me.....( and I'll smash your face in!)"
Playground tactics will not win the fight here.

Pot calling kettle black.... :=


And anyway, how can pointing out facts re Balpa membership be seen as bullying, grow up for goodness sake boy! :ugh:

You need look no further than today's results from Ryanair in order to see exactly where TCG and TCX's woes stem from.

Wow!!! Wrong end of the stick boys!!! I like how you immediately assume that! No....go quiet because I won't engage in a conversation with a BALPA preacher. I'm a member, and proud to be so. I just choose to leave it at that. The reason is simple. It's because if you outwardly show any negative signs towards BALPA and you're unlucky to be flying with a BALPA faithful the conversation only goes one way. I don't like that as I find it unnesscary. So I choose to remain silient, hence my comment. Relax boys!

How many BALPA-negotiated pay rises have Thomas Cook pilots had over the last 4 years?

Peter,
We've had more Balpa negotiated pay rises than other union or non-union negotiated rises over the last 4 years. No?

Still got the fair weather non-members circulating in TCX. A number of guys have re-joined recently in fear of remaining 'in the dark' with stuff. That's the thing that grinds with me about most moaning non-members: they complain they don't get informed and updated with discussions and the soon to be negotiations. Simple- sign up. The Balpa website is great. :D

Black Pudding
 

I think you will find that eJ is a BALPA airline.

TCX's airline business is now in material decline.

If the deal with EZY works well, why wouldn't they seek growth from type of operation that rather than the massive hastle of running an airline operation (on top of everything else within TCX).

The Sale & Leaseback of the Boeings suggests however that the airline business will remain for the medium term, but TCX came close to failure and therefore change is required by the city. It would be very easy for management to say that the move away from hard assets (shops/airline etc.) is the sure way to gold.

If nothing else, it buys them a few years.

How many company council balpa members got demoted?.

Think joining date seniority list....think "new" merger seniority list.....it helped some...didnt it?

Voted with my feet.

There are currently 22 Reserve Captains on the seniority list. I believe that they are all in their base of choice and the Reserve Captain pay scale was negotiated by BALPA.

BALPA will never be able to please all of the people all of the time. Most will be pro, understandably, some will be anti. It's called democracy.

Any CC on the reserve captains list you are so thankful for?

Check the DOJ.

Thats called corruption.

Where exactly do I state that I am thankful? I have no idea who is on the CC as I am no longer a member. If there is an error with the seniority list, it should be raised with the DFO.

I suggest those in TCX retire to our private forum and not hang out washing in R+News.

Fantom, by hanging out in Pprune rather than your "Private" room, others can make reasoned judgements. You may wish to hang out behind your Balpa Box key too. No wish to pull of thread but look, I have been very anti Union since I entered the employment scene in 1965. Unions were FULL of the bully boys who would otherwise have no power whatsoever. They nearly bought the whole damn country to it's knees. I had to laugh, sitting on the loo at LGW reading the graffiti written on the back of the toilet door. One contributor exclaimed "Workers, UNITE to smash big business". A reply was pencilled in.."And then who would YOU work for" !

Therein lies the roots. Into professional flying, I resisted nasty bully boy tactics to join BALPA. The usual Flt Deck chats with unbalanced views failed to pursuade. Even then, whole mobs were insensed that I was enjoying terms & Conditions negotiated by BALPA. I was happy to negotiate my own TCs with the Management but it became clear that I would most likely enjoy greatly enhanced status and was pursuaded by my Fleet Captain to drop the issue.

Winning the "James Thane" case was the fave "pursuasive" case argument offered by one, so called 'Training Captain' who , failing to succeed, retorted that he & other BALPA Captains would cease to offer me any handling " in order to protect" me !

I left the damned BALPA company & joined a Company who's Management view was very anti-union. I enjoyed fabbo flying days, better terms & conditions & moved again, only for better Command Opportunity. My pursuasion to my new Company Management was that a really good company would never need a Union. They agreed.BAPLA never got a look in because there was no need to "UNITE" !

TCX appears to be a Union Company. Should you wish to accept employment in such a scenario, you go with the ball game. If within the game, one remains free to join or remain outside, that freedom should be respected.

On thread, stay on site TCX & do not let anyone , er, "pursuade" you into anything you feel to be unprofessional. Good luck to all who face very unsettling and worrying times.

Good luck to all at TCX, my friend has just done 6 months there but unfortunately is now at the end if the contract.

BALPA were toothless when I needed them before, we all went and joined the TGWU. Being a Tory boy that was a big step but gave us some protection.

BALPA is far from perfect and few dispute that. The alternative unfortunately is management imposition of revised T and Cs or the IPA that has got Virgin pilots nowhere.

"Pursuade" is that the sort of shoe that pursers (RN) wear? I could be persuaded that it belongs to the grocer WHOSE apostrophe was stolen. I am not sure I recognised much of the rest of the discussion, which seems to have been lost in myth and legend.

Slow,

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it.

However, 'bully-boy' tactics is below the belt and certainly nothing I have encountered. I was once asked if I would support a forthcoming work-to-rule and replied that, as I had only been in the Co for six weeks and agreed the T+Cs, how could I?

I did join some time later but left, having decided it was not worth it and contrary to my uber R-wing ideals.

Guess what? Starting to operate into USA I realised I needed protection so I joined again. Pure and simple.

The important message from me (returning to the original point of this thread) is that, in my opinion, those representing TCX pilots in BALPA are some of the most genuine guys I have ever worked with and deserve great respect.

'BEARDY' ; Loved it. Just choked on my first shot of caffeine ! Maybe I meant ' per suede' ! 'FANTOM', I was referring to the dreadful 1960's & early 70's. I enjoyed employment with my sponsoring airline & hated the thought of "withdrawing" my labour in support of some herly bird in dispute with Bristows ! I hated the handling of the BEA/BOAC/BARD merger where some Bapla reps did very well & I wound up bottom of BEA ! Of course things got better where silly Managements decided to negotiate only with BALPA PLC'c . I am aware of the tremendous efforts of the new breed of BALPA Rep & no intended offense exists. I still prefer non Union Companies & enjoyed the greater part of my career with them. Apologies for going off thread a bit & I still feel for all in TCX .

Slowjet, your opinions seem to have been formed as a result of what you experienced in the 70s and, frankly, I'd probably have come to the same position myself.

But things have changed and perhaps you should look again at the world around you. Although you may have been clever enough to negotiate for yourself some really good terms and conditions, try that today as a contractor with Ryanair and see how far you get. The young men and women starting out today are being thoroughly exploited by the management of these 'low cost' airlines and individually they can do nothing about it. They will only improve their lot by acting collectively; something they have obviously failed to do.

We in TCX are lucky enough to have an agreement that sees the Company obliged to negotiate with our professional body; BALPA. We live in the real world (not a half forgotten world of three day working weeks, electricity cuts, Scargill and Red Robbo) and membership of a Union does not make that go away, it does not immunize you from change. It does however give you a voice, a say in the process of change and a counterweight to management excess.

The BALPA CC in TCX cannot undo the damage done by the incompetent management of recent years but they can try to ensure that the changes necessary are shaped in such a way that our Airline remains the great place to work for pilots that it is now, even in the midst of all this crap; an aim un achievable acting individually.

And before before anybody accuses me of being a BALPA stooge I must state that beyond being a member I have little else to do with the Association. I simply believe that we must try to speak to 'Management' with one voice.

Thanks Bernoulli. Excellent post. Just hung up my flying boots and agree we live in a vastly changed climate. I am, frankly, glad to be out of it & again apologise to any BALPA reps of the "real world" who, I know, do very excellent work on behalf of members.

Let's see what the long term strategy looks like at the end of the month...if it contains any detail or just waffle.

In the meantime, people can continue to talk of reserve captains' lists.