The family threats are entertaining, and Italy is a passionate country, but I don't believe them.

I am more thinking about subtle incapacitation due to fatigue...

Except in Easyjet it pushes the limit every day by dispatching its aircraft with barely experienced disenfranchised contract f/o's.

This airline was well known to have had close links with a certain Sicilian syndicate.

From another Forum:

Person A
Answer of person B
Maybe a joke, maybe not.....

Well the captain said we'll be landing shortly. :E

Perhaps, but a wrong is a wrong if a 500 hour copilot does it or if it is a 15000 hour captain doing it. There is a steep authority gradient to meet by the copilot, I agree, but if the chap knows his business and what he is supposed to do, he will make sure the captain knows there's a deviation occurring. And even more, if he has any sense of self preservation he will take over command from the captain if he sees no corrective action being taken, no matter how hard the latter screams back at him after doing so.

It's called being a first officer in a commercial airliner.

Perhaps, but a wrong is a wrong if a 500 hour copilot does it or if it is a 15000 hour captain doing it. There is a steep authority gradient to meet by the copilot, I agree, but if the chap knows his business and what he is supposed to do, he will make sure the captain knows there's a deviation occurring. And even more, if he has any sense of self preservation he will take over command from the captain if he sees no corrective action being taken, no matter how hard the latter screams back at him after doing so.

It's called being a first officer in a commercial airliner.

^^ Here Here to that

I've had the FO correct me several times during my career. Input always gratefully received, and usually right. As I used to point out, the FO is the guy without the pressures that are on the captain, therefore often able to make the more balanced judgement and break up the captain's mindset.

But he can't launch legal action to get his job back like Schettino....

Costa Concordia captain wants his job back - Telegraph

All very fine in theory, but it is most unlikely the captain will happily relinqish his command authority to the first officer without a physical altercation in the cockpit. Few operation manuals ever publish exactly how a first officer will physically take control from the captain whose hands are already on the controls.

Well on the 'Bus if the AP is in and the FO pushes the levers forward it's going to go-around which would be difficult to recover from and continue an approach so best to just go with it (the go-around). Again on the 'Bus the FO can hit the takeover PB on his sidestick and lockout the Capts inputs and initiate a go-around.

In both cases, at least the aircraft is now climbing away from potential disaster - then it's down to the Capt and FO to "discuss" the next course of action...... :ouch:

"Captain, you MUST go-around!" - if no reaction INTERVENE.

:) Knew you worked for easyjet before I read another word. :ok:

In this day & age there is a great exchange of information and much of it is about the cause of crashes. This could be mechanical or procedural in which case things are redesigned or changed to prevent a reoccurrence. The same is true about human factor errors. Here on prune, and hopefully via the more official channels of flight safety dissemination, we've heard about many such instances, e.g. the B737 in india that continued an approach and ran off the end of a cliff. It was asked by everybody why the F/O was not more forceful in his self-preservation. Still unanswered. Lots of questions about culture differences and experience gradients etc. It was a well reported and discussed event; quite recently. I'm amazed therefore that in the EU, so soon afterwards, there is another similar accident. It is staggering that we as a pilot community seemed to have learnt so little, and that those apprentices in the RHS have not been schooled in these previous events and told with no uncertainty that they are often the last safety net underneath an arrogant/nervous/compulsive/ignorant/non-SOP/ or other kind of captain who is trying to kill you. In most previous cases it was the captain who was PF with get home-itis, but here it was he F/O, and that makes it more curious for the inter-play going on at the time.
Many questions and not perhaps so many answers. I wonder if the captain even knows/remembers/understands what he did and why.

I agree, but one only needs to "pull" a bit further to the other side to try and get a change, i.e., high rate of descent because of being high? Then:

Attaboy

It is a really hard concept and also a really hard thing to do as a young first officer against an experienced captain. But as I said, a wrong is a wrong, no matter who makes it.

There was no risk to manage here :ugh:. The issue is black and white. no runway in sight at minimums, you go around ! Talking about culture is all fine and dandy but the Commander of this flight utterly failed to act in a professional and competent manner.

Like everything else in life you get what you pay for which is why there is a significant number of airlines I will never fly with.........

From the report I think FO was PF until minima and then the Capt. did take over.

So may be the captain did see the runway and said continue.

This section is as far as I see not written.

But another thing I want to emphasize is four reds on the final.

Sometimes I see pilots (both CPTs and FOs) who are trying to be a bit below glide to make a gentle touchdown.

As we all see 3 red must be the limit. You have to immediately correct for 2 red.

4 red you are dead !

4 Greens, even deader.

It looks like they were using RA instead of MDA :ugh:

Maybe, but somehow I don't agree with a change of PF JUST at minima under those conditions.

But still, being a NPA, the FO had a bit of time to make his discomfort known to the captain. If he never saw the runway or thought they were low or even better, to call a missed approach due to an unstabilised approach (+1000ft/min), he never did it, despite having enough time to do so.

Reading the title of this thread, this comes to mind:

Happened last week, the Transall was on its last flight to a museum at Ballenstedt.


Just saying...

Yeah, opened a topic about it and the mod deleted it.