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-   -   A Sukhoi superjet 100 is missing (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/484925-sukhoi-superjet-100-missing.html)

Antek22QR 3rd Jun 2012 11:11

Technology ?Is Key? to Better Communications, Safer Skies | The Jakarta Globe

aterpster 3rd Jun 2012 13:22

That is a fascinating article.

grizzled 3rd Jun 2012 15:22

aterpster

Agreed -- The frequency congestion in Jakarta (especially CGK itself) is a significant matter. The absence of enforcement of frequency allocation and interference problems is a HUGE issue in Indonesia, directly related to a less than diligent regulator beset with corruption.

India Four Two 5th Jun 2012 05:31

grizzled,

Are you saying that commercial FM stations or other radio users are using frequencies in the Aeronautical VHF spectrum?

757_Driver 5th Jun 2012 08:00

maybe not intentionally, but poorly maintained / amateur / unlicensed transmitters can and do have sideband transmissions at different frequencies which could easily be transmitting in the aviation frequency spectrum. Without proper policing of the airwaves then this quickly becomes a real problem.

ATC Watcher 5th Jun 2012 09:48

Not restricted to Indonesia. There was a well know belgian FM radio station who poisoined R/T around Brussels for years. The difficult part was identifying it . Then it took legal action and many years to fix it (force them to buy a protected better quality transmitter ) Not easy. Big money is at stake normally.

seifly 5th Jun 2012 17:30

:suspect:Flying in Delhi a few years back we used to hear commercial radio over approach freq

Phoeniks 7th Jun 2012 18:30

Latest "rumors" from Latvia and Russia...
 
Apollo - Zi

The Google translate for Latvian is pretty sorry, I will try to improve...

Nevertheless the human factor is to blame for the Superjet 100 crash says Russian media.
A source, close to the investigation told journalists the following: Pilot conversations [CVR] reveal that the a/c captain accomplished a „deadly maneuver”, bragging about the aircraft's capabilities. Specialists in Russian media have called this "aerial hooliganism".
In the transcripts you not only hear the warning, that the aircraft is nearing an object, but also a member of the crew trying to talk the captain out of performing risky maneuvers.
The source contends, that in the transcripts the other pilot is yelling approximately this phrase: Commander we are not allowed there, thre is a mountain.
The source also said, that the transcripts revealed that the fateful maneuver, which the pilot was not allowed to perform, was not the first during this flight.
Though temporarily/still we do not have official confirmation about this information, neither from Russian or Indonesian investigators.

JimNtexas 8th Jun 2012 03:34

Unconfirmed CVR information

An airborne version of the Costa Concordia disaster?

SeniorDispatcher 8th Jun 2012 04:05


An airborne version of the Costa Concordia disaster?
Maybe with a little of this thrown-in, the irony of the callsign notwithstanding...


Karel_x 8th Jun 2012 15:00


...Commander we are not allowed there, thre is a mountain...
In russian:

...командир, нам туда нельзя, там гора!
I dont trust this information too much. I have read that "source" claimed that warning was said by "navigator"

по словам источника, это был штурман
and SSJ is two crew member plane...

Full text abou hooliganism:


Как рассказал специалист ЦАГИ, вместе с коллегами из ЛИИ им. Громова они на основании представленных им данных неоднократно моделировали последний полет SSJ-100 и пришли к выводу: до столкновения самолет в столь же опасном сближении уже дважды облетал похожие горы, но третью обойти не смог — врезался. Как выразился эксперт: «Я с самого начала понимал, что ошибку экипажа отмести будет сложно, но то, что здесь может иметь место элемент воздушного хулиганства, — такого предположить не мог!»
Expert CAGI said that together with colleagues from the LII they simulated last flight SSJ and find out that before crash the plane twice flew around the mountain in dangerous distance and in third round crashed. Expert claimed: From the beginning I understood that to rule out the crew error will be complicated, but that in this case may take a place a element of air hooliganism - I could not imagine!"

vovachan 8th Jun 2012 15:42

Here is a google-translated article which quotes an "industry source"

Google Translate

who says it appears the pilots were convinced they were over a flat area and ignored taws warnings. There was a secondary too low gear warning

The media reports of a crew member warning of a mountain ahead are speculative and incorrect he said

There may have been a gap in communications with tower due to terrain

GroundProxGuy 8th Jun 2012 20:11

A gear warning makes me wonder about their airspeed.

Most gear warnings (TAWS or other) take into account thrust lever position or airspeed to only give warnings when thrust or airspeed is low, in the landing realm.

If they were slow enough to get gear warnings perhaps they didn't have the speed or power to climb safely above terrain once they spotted it?

Khashoggi 9th Jun 2012 00:25

There is earlier reference to a Navigator in the first few pages of this thread. It discusses the fact that the same Navigator was on both demo flights.

Even though the plane is 2-crew there may have been additional people on the flight deck.

WanganuiLad 9th Jun 2012 00:49

Could the first 3 or 4 secs of this Sukhoi clip be considered 'aerial hooliganism ?
Sebagian Kotak Hitam Ditemukan - Antara News Video

stepwilk 9th Jun 2012 01:14

Uh, no, don't think so...

Karel_x 9th Jun 2012 07:58


There is earlier reference to a Navigator in the first few pages of this thread. It discusses the fact that the same Navigator was on both demo flights.
Even though the plane is 2-crew there may have been additional people on the flight deck.
There already was a third person in the cocpit - a potential customer. Reportedly he dont disturb the pilots, only from time to time he asked some question, about consumption of fuel etc. No wishes for risky maneuver or sightseeing. Hypothetical navigator shoul be a forth person in little cocpit.

adding:

There was the navigator aboard - Oleg Shvecov

BOAC 9th Jun 2012 09:12

Back in the 'old days' when I used to chase the pesky Reds around the airspace the 'Political Advisor' on aboard (presumably there to report on any non-acceptable politics) was always referred to as a 'navigator'.

Karel_x 9th Jun 2012 10:45

There was a customer sitting in the cockpit...

http://p.twimg.com/Au0FTRVCAAE929H.jpg

Heathrow Harry 9th Jun 2012 12:18

they WERE trying to sell the plane

tough to do if everyone is locked in like the SLC on BA


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