All Viking Pilots Have Been Fired
 

So no aircraft and now no pilots...............surely the end?!!

An email was sent to the pilots, not even addressed individually, but dear colleague, didn't even have the common decency or courtesy to tell you by name that you had been terminated with immediate effect.

So where does that leave the pilots under European employment law with regards to redundancy?

B******s.

Fired != Made redundant. To fire you, they need good (legal) reason so I suspect it's the latter, which means statutory redundancy as a minimum.

Contracts terminated with immediate effect.....Yes I suppose technically made redundant.

Were the aircrew employees or self employed contractors ?
Only employees get redundancy pay.

Not redundant in anyone's law, just dead.
But perhaps it was the contracts that were terminated, not the pilots...

A lot of the Cabin Crew received the same standard letter, arrived late in true Viking style!!

Under UK employment law I believe you have to be initially advised that your job is "at risk" followed by a cooling off period, followed by the contract termination notice period as per the terms of your contract. Of course if a company goes bankrupt or into the hands of the administrators this is all forefitted by default, but this is not the case here is it? Viking are still operating but have apparently ditched their employees with no standard notice period whatsoever.......

Please do correct me if I'm wrong ??

Viking gone bust?

No, apparently not! That's the whole point.
The Uk's rules on redundancy are quite clearly laid out. You just can't get rid of permanent contracted employees with zero notice. You require a consulation period, followed by a termination notice period stipulating all the details, including the date of your last day of employment. Typical notice period for termination might be 1 month in the same way you would have to give 1 month to leave......

Well if Viking has no aircraft then it isn't operating but has the company wound up, by debt, or is it still in existence?

Aircraft, anything, only normally become repossessed due to non payment(s), on the face of it it sounds quite a game plan, a scam, i.e. let's operate for a suimmer, make as much money in a short term, whilst paying the least bills, then 'foxtrot oscar' with the monies reaped.

Viking have not gone bust however the company is in something of a Swedish version of the American Chapter 11.

It will be interesting to see if Viking returns to flying.............I await the answer with interest.

Perhaps some light can be shed here:

Viking aircraft impounded at Gatwick for unpaid debts

Hardly a professional way to treat professional crew if the "dear colleague" standard letter was sent.

With PW involved thats quite probable. When XL when down it was quite believable since we all know airlines run huge overheads and the balance of finances is very tight. Very easy for it to tip and fall into the hands of the administrators as it did. Then a few years on Kiss goes down as well? This was just a ticket sales company that sold seats on Vikings aircraft. According to the figures, when it went down there were 13,000 people travelling at the time on tickets bought through Kiss and another 60,000ish sold tickets pending future flights. The company was little more than an office, a website and a handful of staff. It operated for just long enough to make a ton of cash, wind up a list of debts and probably not pay the taxman before it mysteriously collapsed. Makes you wonder doesn't it, how a company with such large sales and low overheads can fail ??
I know this is not directly related to this post but it needs to said......

Some more facts are certainly required here but I believe Viking run several arms; Viking Hellas, Viking Sweden and Viking AB (UK) amongst them.
It seems they have now dropped Viking AB or at least the best part of it. The point is these were UK employees on UK contracts. You can't just go to another country and run an operation based in that country but on your own rules. If you could there would be nothing stopping you having a company that was based in a third world country where there are no rules to speak of, and then operate it in the country of your choice and exploiting it, and it's people.
I work for a Canadian company based in the UK but they still have to employ us according to UK law.

Sorry if I'm wandering off the original point.

This is a link to the governments facts on redundancy regarding consultation and notice periods :-

Redundancy: your rights to consultation : Directgov - Employment

In particular I would draw the attention of those that have been affected to this particular bit :-

Failure to consult

You or your rep might be able to make a claim to an Employment Tribunal for a ‘protective award’ if your employer:

• does not begin consultation early enough
• ends the consultation early
• doesn’t consult properly

An Employment Tribunal could make a ‘protective award’ of up to 90 days' pay for each affected employee. The amount will be decided by the Employment Tribunal, based on the extent of your employer’s failure and the circumstances.



Unless Viking have actually gone bust I fail to see how they can get away with giving their staff a zero notice period in the UK ??

Prof,

Winning any tribunal may be one thing but getting any money may be another.

Even if one wins a tribunal if the other party declines to pay up then one needs to take County Court action, now where are Viking AB actually located, in UK or elsewhere, I doubt County Court works internationally thus this could be a right bag of worms scenario!

IIRC The 90 days notice is not applicable once the company go into administration, Any unpaid wages and 'awards' will need to be claimed from the point of view of a preferential creditor. The problem is that an airline usually has few assets left after repossession of the fleet by the bank.

This isnt a hangover still from the Collapse of the flights booking firm, Kiss Flights at all is it? Because when they went bust, Viking pulled out here at BRS thus making all the UK Crew redundent.

Interesting to note as well if you go onto the fly Viking website, it only directs you to Viking Hellas

Agreed, if the company goes into administration, bankrupt etc. all of the rules and contracts etc. are virtually worthless. At the moment though according to the company spokesman quoted in the link from max_continuous, they are most definately "not in liquidation". This means they are contiously choosing not to play by the rules.

Fogg, agreed also. These things are never straight forward and we will have to see how it develops from here on in. If it all collapses in the next few days then it's an entirely different playing field.

I feel for the company as well as the employees, it's just at the moment it all looks like they've made a mess of it here in the UK and retracted back to Sweden with a blatent disregard for UK employment law.
Thats all I'm really getting at.....:hmm:

But 40% of Viking Airways is owned by Phil Wyatt.

Totally shameful way to treat staff--a blessing that a few airlines are now recruiting again-hope you all get jobs soon

Most of the pilots and cc should be familiar with the Employment Tribunal procedure as they are Ex XL and have been through it all before with Stat Redund and Protective Awards etc etc. As I understand it, the Vik UK co has not been popped yet.

Good luck guys.

As I see it, and looking at Co. House web etc, PW does not own any of Vik, but BPI does. BPI I see is now Icelandic company though.

:ugh:

Thrush
 

The following quote is from Phil Wyatt himself. Refer to Post 340 dated 22nd August 2010 on the Viking Airlines thread in the AA&R section.

same old story ...
 

same symptoms , same hopes. Go for the jugular ..

I am surprised they last so long already:sad:

It's seem to me that Viking Airline management PW/CT were fully aware that they were going to have a difficult winter with the company viking AB, they knew full well in advance that the company was in serious trouble,( well the employes anyway) But they choose to ignore it , Instead of giving people there notices up to two months ago, they decided to carry on regardless,Phil L clark was put up in a position to cut cost within the compamy nearly three months,Yet Management decided it would cheaper and more efficent just to lay them all off without pay due to some loophole in the law, by using third party companies that no one can seen to contact,I my opinion it dose matter wheather viking airlines AB will continue trading , I realy don't think that they can secure any more contracts with their current reputation, I am sure that BPI will have some new company opened again next year,I really do feel sorry for all the employees(engineer's,pilots,cabin crew) they alway seem to be dealt a bad hand by this conpany and it's so call managers,who only seen to care about lining ther own pockets,I think if any of the employees can get any of thier wages that is owe to them they should go for it!!

How true TR,

same people, same operating principle,same result. Eight years ago Air Scandic, who's next...? How sad...

DG

Why surprised?

Maybe more "personal risk management" skills are called for before enter contracts!

A 30 min investigation on this company shows big warning signals, and have done so for years:ugh:

Industrial tribunal
 

To all the Kiss boys and girls,

Tough break, I mean that, but I for one am not interested in getting into the 'whole told you so it's happened again when will he/they stop' thing.

You must all take the employer to an industrial tribunal. I cannot find the link right now, but you can file online in 5 minutes at zero cost. You have nothing to lose!

In comparison, my last UK Airline Company failed in the most civilized way, payed the owed wages for the Month (early) and ceased trading overnight.

We all took the Company that looked after us to IT for lack of consultation and won, the Government paid out, albeit at a very reduced rate of pay.

The very best of luck to you all, remember the market is starting to move so chins up and hopefuly the door that has just smacked you on the arse will open the next one very soon.


Best regards.

Bored

This is an absolute fiasco and a disgrace! I am genuinely upset and appalled that Phil Wyatt would issue a statement promoting an investment into what I can only describe as a 'joke airline'.

'' I am confident that Viking Airlines will be flying out of the UK again in some shape or form'' - Phil Wyatt

Cue silence – wind, dust and tumbleweed. I am sure there are other guaranteed ways of bringing joy to peoples lives. Disappointing thousands more holiday makers once again next summer surprisingly doesn’t come out top of everybody’s list.

On a serious note, as many of you will be aware, the majority of airlines and tour operators were overwhelmed this year. With an economic downturn, followed by a natural volcanic disaster thrown in for good measure, many businesses failed to recover, some bowing out more graciously than others.

With the confident assurances Mr Wyatt reveals to the public in his statement, it is a wonder why he and his associates didn’t apply for this years - Apprentice. If only they were pitching their ideas to Lord Sugar. I’m sure his witty response and sharp tongue would amuse the wider audience and would sound something along the lines of-
"Could be you’re here because you’re good with words and know the right thing to say at the right time. I know the words to Candle in the Wind. It don't make me Elton John." – Lord Alan Sugar
Viking Airlines missed their calling on Lord Alan Sugars - The Apprentice but they would definitely give Aunty Wainwright from - Last of the Summer Wine a run for her money. The sly and grasping junk shop owner who manages to lure unsuspecting customers into purchasing any unwanted items from her shop.

Humour aside, Noel Josephides, managing director of Sunvil Holidays and former non-executive chairman of the airline is adamant –

‘The airline hasn’t ceased trading or anything like that. It will resume flying next summer.’ – Noel Josephides

You can imagine this news raises the odd eyebrow especially for the many redundant Viking Airline employees who were issued a statement today with regard to their final pay.

Over to you - Viking Airlines Managing Director and Accountable Manager, Phil Lintott-Clarke.

‘Please forgive the general nature of this email. As you will know we have now commenced our period of reconstruction.

We are working closely with our lawyers in Stockholm to find a way through this complex process. I am hopeful that we should be in a better position to know what the way forward will be by 17th of November when we will have concluded discussions with Lessors and other large creditors. The Company had lined up a substantial trade backed investment but due to the uncertainty of any lessors claims on the business this has been put on ice until we can conclude negotiations with these Lessors – we are assured the investment is still available subject these claims being reasonable.

If we are successful in reaching Agreement with the Lessors and the investment remains forthcoming we will be in a position to pay the respective crew leasing agency the charges due up to the end of October – If we are not successful I regret to advise that I expect that no October dues will be forthcoming.’

Thanks for the heads up Phil Lintott-Clarke.

Viking Airlines can be found during the festive period in your local garden centre this year ladies and gentlemen as - The Grinch who stole Christmas.

This is a long line of what I like to call – Good Friday Emails. These are the ones that pop up in your inbox, issued on the last day of the week, which you can not respond too and are managements way of avoiding having to answer any awkward questions.

Viking Airlines knee jerk reactions to the financial climate of 2010 knocked the confidence and lessened the feeling amongst its employees, something no doubt felt by its passengers. Portraying itself as a healthy contender only adds genuine insult to the many staff and their families who will be wondering where their next pay check will be coming from.

Viking Hellas has been drafted to operate this winter schedule on behalf of Viking Airlines AB. A rocky start saw the impounding of a Viking Hellas aircraft at Gatwick Airport on Mon 18 Oct 2010 due to non payment of fees owed by the Viking Group.

In a statement, Gatwick Airport said –
‘We can confirm that a Viking aircraft was detained by Gatwick Airport yesterday (18 October) as a result of an unpaid, long-standing debt owed by Viking Group’.
‘Gatwick did not take this action lightly, but after months of chasing payment without success it became apparent that this was, regrettably, the only option left to recover the monies owed. The aircraft was released following the receipt of payment made by Viking Group’.
Understandably employees would be naturally upset that the Viking Group has the ability and financial resource to bail out one of their assets ie. their aircraft, but fail to recognise the many employees who worked long hours to ensure the airlines productivity and resilience during a challenging year and who aren’t going to be paid at the end of this month – aren’t they considered assets by the Viking Group too?
To conclude my rant.
It is my belief that a recession can have a positive affect on businesses. It encourages innovation, strengthens competition and encourages improved standards of customer service. Those businesses who lack the ability to deliver on their promise’s, provide a substandard quality of customer service and who continually demonstrate a profound lack of business etiquette have little chance in today’s economy. The man made corporate equivalent of natures own natural selection. The process where the weak will be weeded out and the stronger contenders continue to recover, move forward and flourish.

Viking Airlines cowboy endeavours lack substance and more importantly fundamental integrity. They are a disgrace to the aviation industry and have no moral obligation to uphold to their employees or customers alike. They are more likely to be seen on BBC’s Watchdog than Wish you were here.


Thank you for listening I hope I raised a smile amongst the obvious concern.

- Anonymous

Some parts of the world are still desperate for pilots (not china) so that could be interesting to have a look in East Africa region 737NG major operators. It s not like being home but that keep you current at least and it s happening now.

Fingers crossed and good luck to all Viking guys

And when these people turn up with the next iteration of this kind of operation, pilots will still be bending over backwards to prostitute themselves into working for them. Guys, don't be surprised when something like this falls on its arse, you should have seen it coming. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Anonymousviking
 

It is to your credit that you are able to put a humorous slant on what must be a distressing situation.

Were all Viking crew employed through a leasing agent or did they employ any crew directly?

I wish you well for the future.

dontdoit
 

So in the biggest recesion in living memory some guys take a job with the only airline in town and in your opinion they deserve to get shafted.

Please tell me the logic to this statment and while you are about it could you please tell us why you seem to take so much plesure in these job losses?

Dontdoit are right, they don´t deserve it but should have expect it