Lufthansa Pilots to ballot on strike action
 

Source: Nachrichten | Aktuell | BR

Urabstimmung der Lufthansa-Piloten läuft

Frankfurt am Main: Im Tarifstreit zwischen Piloten und der Deutschen Lufthansa hat die Urabstimmung über einen Streik begonnen. 4.500 Piloten sollen bis zum 17. Februar entscheiden, ob es zu einem Arbeitskampf kommt. Neben den Lufthansa-Piloten ist auch das Cockpit-Personal bei der Frachttochter Lufthansa Cargo und bei Germanwings betroffen. Die Tarifverhandlungen zwischen der Piloten-Gewerkschaft Cockpit und dem Unternehmen waren Ende vergangenen Jahres gescheitert. Bei dem Streit geht es vor allem um die Zusicherung von Arbeitsplätzen.

Which translates as:

Frankfurt: The wage dispute between pilots and Lufthansa German Airlines has started a ballot for strike action. 4500 pilots shall decide by 17 February whether there will be an industrial dispute. In addition to the Lufthansa mainline pilots, the cockpit crews in the Freight subsidiary, Lufthansa Cargo and German Wings are affected. Wage negotiations between the pilots union "Cockpit" and the company failed late last year. The argument is especially for a guarantee of employment.

Seems like they are at it again.

Anyone got any more on this?

The whole matter is much more complex than just a "guarantee of employment".I`d much rather call it a fight for existing working conditions,since not a single job is currently at stake within mainline LH,compared to other carriers within the Lufthansa Group.
Failure of both managment and VC during recent years lead to the current situation which is nearly insolvable without either party making huge sacrifices.
I wish them all the best for securing their working conditions,they have every right to do so,though that could very well put my employer in severe difficulties.At least they have the full support and backup of VC ,unlike so many other carriers in Germany.

Of course they have full support of VC - they are VC...

After all, VC never helped other pilot corps, why should they, they are helping themselves.

Dani

Well, I guess it would be OK for the loyal BMI Lufty employees to pick up the work and secure their contracts instead of being fired out of hand :hmm:

Dani

VC is really mean to all guys who dont work for LH, didnt make DLR, bla bla bla and so on...

there is only one winner when the pilots dont have a union. Thats the employer.

Wheels turn slowly but changes do happen. How much longer do you want to wait to get all pilots for AB united and fight for their rights? As long the Pilots fight eachothers there is one guy laughing whos got a funny hairstyle:} When do commuters in Germany start to join some union, any union? doesnt have to be VC. LH is the only airline in Dland where most of the guys pull the same direction. Thats the only way not to deteriorate our conditions.

Any union is a copy of their members. If LH presents the majority, then VC will be close to their interests. Whats the problem? Maybe you should have joined a VEB some 20 years ago and try another approach:} Didnt work too well...

What i dont get is, why does german language implement a jelous attitude towards the achievments of others? Its the only area in the world, where achievements are not respected by others. If the flag carrier in one country gets worse conditions to work for, this will immediately influence negative downstream the whole airline industry. Thats a fact! So if a B744 CPT gets a paycut, the F50 guy will earn less after a while too...

An industrial action has been a long time due! New guys in the leadership on both sides will show their power and lets wait and see what happens...

happy fuel flow

New guys...talking of strike action, during a real downturn in airline ops.:eek:
Quite typical....shades of CX some years ago.
New guys never learn, it seems.:rolleyes:

The 'new guy' leading the negotiations for the pilots is a former president of the 'Vereinigung Cockpit', i.e. the pilots union. He lead the VC during the last strike actions of Lufthansa pilots in the year 2001. So at least HE is not a 'new guy'.

And the VC is fully aware of the responsibility they have during a economic crisis like the one we are facing at the moment - they won't take a foolhardy risk by starting a strike if not really necessary....

I wish all the lufties good luck! There are many around here who admire your VC, me too....

Keep going!
:ok:

First time I agree with 411A!! (Am I getting old :confused:)

The only winners will be the competitors, or BMI and Swiss. They will take over during strike.

Turkeys voting for Christmas next :rolleyes:

@Dani

yeah BMI and Swiss are taking over, what a deadly scenario...

if you start to agree with 411A and think BMI and SWISS are taking over anything then i strongly advice not continue using those mind altering drugs:}

VC cant really choose that much when to Stike. The contract must be over, votes from all the members in and so on. I am sure nobody flying in a LH cockpit wants to harm our company. Its a career airline and everybody is looking forward to retire here.

But sometimes its time to use the power. we have got...and now that time has come...

"I wish all the lufties good luck! There are many around here who admire your VC, me too...."

Nothing much to admire anymore.
With the current VC president being a puppet of the LH classic delegation it is all to clear who runs the show.Given the fact that the vast majority of VC members are mainline pilots I don`t blame them,I would also try to defend my own turf.But then VC should stop pretending that they are a union for every airline in Germany.Or what is their reaction to the current lay-off of 40+ pilots at Contact Air?Imagine something like that happening at LH classic...
Don`t get me wrong,I always was a fan of VC , liked the idea of one single pilot union and have been a member since flight school days,but things are way out of balance now...

Nevertheless,good luck to the colleagues at LH,at least show management that we need to be treated with respect again!

Being envious is a German speciality - that's so true, unfortunately.

I couldn't care less about my LH-colleagues' salaries. Somebody is paying them. It will all be over as soon as LH cannot get the ticket fees they're asking for any longer and/or load factors start going south.

So far, VC has been a very effective lobby organization for their LH-dominated clientèle and it has been right in doing so in principle. There is a tendency of underpaying aviation enthusiasts who would 'fly for food'. And I find recently published examples of poorly trained and not adequately rested/paid regional pilots rather alarming, who fail to do the right thing when encountering ice during approach...

High salaries are no guarantee for good pilots, but for the boarding passengers it must be comforting to know that the term ' low cost' did not apply to flight crew training or maintenance.

Should more companies have strong unions as VC? Probably. But egoism and a general lack of solidarity are quite common as well, so this will never happen.

So, let's lean back and enjoy the show as LH pilots start start flash mobbing in FRA, whining about their ridiculous low pay and holding posters in the air, demanding 'top pay for top performance'. Excellent timing, guys & gals.:ok:

@jetoba
another smart guy here :mad::ugh:
you definatly know whats going on,:D
MD11f

411A
 

411A;

New guys do learn, and then they become old guys... :}

The German have guts. THEM ! Unlike many here who are perfectly happy being walked all over.

German EZ pilots made it clear that there would be no messing with them. British EZ pilots are....huh...wimps ?

It is official now, between 93 and 94% voted for strike actions.
Just received an email from a friend saying that from next Mon to Thu Lufthansa, Lufthansa Cargo and Germanwings pilots will go on strike!!

I have just a little hope that there will be any kind of arrangement before that date in order to prevent a strike.

good luck and good nerves to all involved

Good luck Lufties:ok:

Please go on strike! 1 other airlines will benefit from this
2 less congestion in the european airspace (less slots)
3 fewer demand for Jet-A1 prices will go down


We can all say thank you lufthansa for striking

Lufthansa strike
 

well done:mad:

I am booked to return with LH on Monday.

To those of you who have voted for strike action, I hope the thought of standing in the unemplyment queue when the airline goes under makes you think again.

Get Real.

:ugh:

Yes, tb10er, get real! :E

Well done, VC and LH Pilots! Franz will have a "not so pleasant" time 'til Monday.... :ok:

reply to Frosch
 

How pathetic is that comment:mad:

If you are one of those who have voted "Yes", have a long and unplanned retirement. Haven't you heard, there is a recssion.

I have paid for my tickets, and guess what, next time, I will use a different carrier - you have lost my custom - how many more will do the same.

Yes Frosch,

and the puppet on a string dirigent J.W. will need some extra blood pressure pills:ok:

I think not a sinlge pilot thinks it is cool or a good thing to strike.
This is the last line of defense for the pilots or employees in general.
So i have no understanding for TB10er s comments. Sorry that your flight on monday might be cancelled or delayed but to blame the pilots is wrong.
There is much more behind it beside the 6.? %!!!!

Reply to Cityliner
 

My comments are from a customer (remember what they are) who has paid for a number of tickets out of MY pocket.

The amount I have paid, covers the wages of those staff who are supposed to transport me. If they don't want to work, MY money will go elsewhere.

Any other lost fares will just keep adding to the nails in the coffin.

I wish my valued colleagues success in their struggle against management. Our profession has gone through a drastic downturn in terms and conditions. If the pilots at the top airlines (and Lufthansa meets that criteria whichever way you want to measure it), can’t maintain a reasonable living the guys at the smaller, more vulnerable airlines don’t stand a chance. Of course the usual whiners will threaten and cajole the pilots, but the passenger has very little loyalty as is, it is all down to price. The negotiation demands are more than reasonable. Airline managers are solidly in line with our esteemed bankers, quarterly results, and bonuses are all the matters.

TB10er don’t be so high and mighty. If you pay for your own tickets you will use the internet to get the best price, again very little brand loyalty in this business, otherwise the “low”-cost carriers wouldn’t be a big as they are. This goes way beyond your little concerns! I can read between the lines how much you value the persons who transport you.

Hello,

Not sure I got the whole picture here. How certain is the strike ?
Then if the stike indeed takes place what happens to the tickets ?

Message to Otterman
 

Me "high and mighty", etc. I won't lower myself to your level with a response.

If you worked in a "proper" company like I do, and said you were going on strike, the management would cease your contract immediately.

I live in the real world.
The customer is King

Long live the Loco's

Obviously over looked the fact that BA, AFR, AZA are not adverse to some strike actions.
Long live loc co? They are some of the root causes of todays aviation crisis. Some are not adverse to cancelling flights at very short notice & here's your fiver back, bye...........you get what you pay for.
If LH are forced to take action, then they will look after you one way or another.
Give me LH anyday of the week over the vast maajority of carriers. If there is a dispute...then I'm sure there's a pretty good reason for it, with arguments on both sides.

Then there are no proper companies in Germany, because the right to strike is written into its constitution, and firing because of strike will result in bitter penalties for the employer.

Maybe you should direct your energy in getting a refund from LH and book your flights on of the low cost carriers then.

Must be a lovely place you live. After an extensive period of negotiations the union has reached the point that their only recourse is a legally sanctioned strike. This is not a wildcat or impulse action. Your comments reek of a total lack of knowledge in this matter.

The only thing they contain is the emotion for the potential inconvenience, of having your travel plans altered. For that inconvenience I can register a bit of sympathy. But the rest of your comments are nonsensical and don’t relate to any topic mentioned here. As you mentioned in your last post “long live the loco’s” shows your real colors. Flying Lufthansa on that day was the cheap option, otherwise you would have been on another aircraft. Like I said brand loyalty is a thing of the past. Only companies tied in to contracts and frequent flier miles might change people’s booking habit, otherwise it is price, price, and price.

I am SLF and a LH Miles & More Frequent Flyer. I fully support the action and will put up with the inconvenience. Why? Because I am seriously concerned about where the airline industry is going. It's not strikes or higher fares that will keep me from flying, but the idea that monkeys paid peanuts will soon be sitting up front will.

Strike
 

I have obviously touched a nerve here - good.

To clarify one of the points made about me:

Flying Lufthansa on that day was the cheap option, otherwise you would have been on another aircraft - wrong. I chose it because I am flying long haul and LH had the best times and connections to/from my destination.

The comment about not being sacked due to industrial action - have you not heard of the term "surplus to our needs" (sacking by another name).

Locos - at least with a loco, I may only spend £5 - if anything prevents me from flying at that price, then it is no big deal.

Would you have booked Lufthansa if you had another option? From all comments that you have written I can easily come to an answer. You would have chosen the cheapest option available.

In this matter you truly don’t have a clue what you are talking about. The only dog you have in this fight is your convenience. Please phone Lufthansa and those good folks will take care to get you to your destination.

What the Lufthansa colleagues are fighting for are fundamental to our profession. I realize that folks like you see us as bus drivers, and find it perfectly viable to travel up to 1500 km for the price of a light lunch. I know better, and support their fight wholeheartedly.

No "young/new" guys acting/leading here!

Most of them are actually "old" (the leaders were around in 2001 already) and very seasoned in the matter.
This industrial action is by no means a knee-jerk reaction, but the result of years of grinding negotiations.
AND, the parties involved had come very far by December in resolving the "big" issues, which would have involved concessions (!) by the pilots for job/market guarantees.
But,
Mr. Franz, the "CEO-crownprince", was not allowed to proceed, so (decisive) industrial action became necessary to resolve the issue as fast as possible.

This dispute is NOT about getting more money or working for less, but about preventing the erosion of the contract and preventing the "divide and conquer" tactics that seem to be the only answer most management folks have to surviving.

"Sorry for the inconvenience"

article in 'spiegel.de'
 

For those who can read and understand the German language, here's an article in 'DER SPIEGEL' which pretty much sums it up the way it is and how everybody (outside of LH, that is) sees this oncoming strike:

Arbeitskampf bei der Lufthansa: Premium-Piloten blamieren sich mit Streikposse - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Wirtschaft

Unfortunately, I cannot see any English translation of this...

Best of luck to all LH pilots - I hope that your speculation works out for you, and for you only!:ok:

@tb10er

Don't worry, your flight on monday will be as planed.

Thank you hetfield - I hope you are right

Ottoman - stop being so arrogant and making assumptions about me - you know nothing about me.

You are wrong on the price issue. If you are an LH pilot, I hope that I don't have you up front - I don't like your attitude.

:mad:

Just a SLF putting in my two cents. I just booked SFO-->BUD on LH (for March 16) because in my experience, they are the best carrier for this route. I did find some fares on other carriers at a marginally lower price, but felt LH was still the better value. I have flown LH on this route many, many times, in coach, business and first, and they offer the best connections, the best service, the most comfortable seats (in coach) by far. The cabin attendants, even in coach, have always impressed me. And I never, ever think of pilots as bus drivers. I know nothing about the current dispute, so can't comment on that.

Oh dear another "Sod the fare paying customer, he doesn't matter" thread