M'aidez vs Pan
 

Thanks, folks, for clearing that up.
GHOTI

Another side issue from AF447....


Les trois Français emprisonnés depuis dimanche à Sao Paulo pour des incidents survenus à bord d’un appareil brésilien sont dans l’attente, alors que de nouveaux problèmes sont apparus sur la liaison Rio-Paris. L’ombre de l’AF447 plane toujours.
Six mois ont passé mais le crash du Rio-Paris hante encore les esprits. Les trois touristes français interpellés dimanche et lundi dernier à la suite d’une altercation à bord d’un appareil de la TAM, la compagnie brésilienne, sont encore en attente de jugement. Le consul général de France au Brésil, Sylvain Itte, a pu rencontrer Michel Illinskas, 60 ans, M. Nascimento, 63 ans, et Mme Camus, 54 ans, dans leurs lieux de détention respectifs, et « s’assurer que tout se passe au mieux pour eux », indiquait-on hier au Quai d’Orsay. « Ce qui est positif, c’est que nos collaborateurs ont pu les voir, mais nous n’avons pour l’heure aucune connaissance d’une quelconque décision de la justice brésilienne. »

The gist - three pax were offloaded and arrested after an 'altercation' on a TAM Rio-CDG flt which had been delayed three hours for a technical. AFAIK they spent the three hours on board. The three didn't want to fly and TAM called the cops....Featured on French tv news with pics of the AF447 tail.....

You cannot win.

Bye, Barry

As a side issue that surfaced when checking the coordinates of the PORTO(PCX) VOR/DME used as the initial departure for AF445 on UZ10 from CIG, see - http://www.pprune.org/5373255-post32.html I decided to check the Brazil AIP and found:-

AIP BRAZIL - ENR 3.3.2-11Z 19 NOV 09
UZ10
CURITIBA FIR/UTA
PORTO VOR/DME (PCX)
22 42.92S 052 11.55W (as published):confused:
22 42.92S 042 51.45W (when corrected):ok:

Thanks to the Enroute Chart H1, that got sorted. They have been told.

mm43

As ATC Watcher mentioned in an earlier post, AF445 was at FL380 M0.82 and above optimum level of FL360.

Raging away on the EuroCockpit Forum is a technical discussion based around the decision to accept the high level. For those familiar with the AF447 accident stats, you will remember the a/c departed Rio de Janerio at MTOW 223 tonnes and the burn had the weight at the time of the accident at around 190 tonnes.

AF445 also departed at 223 tonnes and the weight at time of the incident was 196 tonnes.

What has been raised on the other forum is the relationship between the Mach number, altitude, OAT and the Mach Stall in 1.5g of turbulence. In other words, the 'coffin corner' scenario has been developed.

So, how much was turbulence, or how much was a recovery from LOC part of the deal?

No doubt these issues will be raised again in a few hours with the release of the BEA No.2 report on AF447.

mm43