SO,

IS GO OWNED BY KLM THEN ?



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Hear All...See All...Say Now't.

[email protected]
(I'm away for a while!)

JB007 - who's this "Go" and "KLM", then that you're on about? :) :) :)

I thought it was a bunfight! :rolleyes:

Seriously ... the answer appears to be no, we don't think so but keep reading the Sunday Times!

Mutt,
I've read through this whole thread and honestly cannot find anything that you have said that could be considered insulting. Its just the usual windbags talking the same old sh*t, trying to make trouble where it dosnt exist.

:)

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'Keep the Stress Down'

GUYS!! GUYS!! can we please get back to the subject and stop the personal snipes!!

I for one as a KLMuk employee am quite worried about this possible takeover of Go.

We at KLMuk and our fellow pilots at Go need to work together in protecting our future.

Indeed (and almost as the Guv says), the actuality of it is that it's the press that have hyped the sale of Go, e.g. it was they (the press) not BA who gave out valuations on the company (which depending upon which paper's you read is anything from £300M to 2s6d ). Likewise, and imho, it is the press that are driving the rumours w.r.t. who is in the running as the future proprietor.

That said, my (reliable) sources tell me that a final announcement is still some weeks away, so watch this space....

Four pages of rubbish...where do you find the time?

I'm interested about the future of GO. Can we please offer some info as this thread promises?



[This message has been edited by standbyils (edited 03 March 2001).]

Duh, well what should we say, e.g. that Go has been brought by KLM, or Lufthansa, or even Fred Karno's army ?

Perhaps the reality is that nobody, or certainly very few know (or are willing to reveal) the answer to this question, just yet - and no amount of press speculation or hype will reveal any more than what comes from the final announcement from both BA and the purchaser(s)

Nb. The plural ending on the last word has been used intentionally ! ;)

well said STANDBYILS!!!!! :)

What will happen if nobody ever wants Go? Will BA keep it or will a management buyout be inevitable?

Dear Mutt

I am most awfully sorry. I read your post with respect to Hamrah as meaning PRIDE as often used in the derogatory sense. I guess I saw red at the way The Guvnor had a go at H, whom I hold in the highest regard.

It is now clear that I was wrong and I therefore withdraw what I wrote and proffer my most profound and sincere apologies to you.

According to BBC Radio this morning KLM have officially made an offer for GO, but the offer is understood to be below the GBP100 million that BA were hoping for.

Tilii - nowhere have I 'had a go' at Hamrah. Could it be that here - as on another thread - you are trying to stir things and cause conflict? If so, don't bother! :)

According to Reuters reports this morning, KLM are denying the FT report that they have made an offer for Go!

Here is the latest from the FT 5 March:

http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pag...te=IXLZHNNP94C

Not sure I would want to be owned by KLM after the carve up at Air UK. However history never quite repeats itself in the same way so lets wait with bated breath!

The Guvnor

Your (now deleted) post on page 2 of this thread was a direct and unequivocal inference that Go Fly was a, quote, "sh*te" airline. You quoted O'Leary of Ryanair as having said this, and went on to endorse his comment. Hamrah was Go's CP for many a long year and was very quick to take offence at this insult, as evidenced by his own reaction to your words.

How, then, do you say you have never had a go at Hamrah? Perhaps you rely on your removal of the offending post, but you should bear in mind that some of us read it and stored it.

In my book, to imply that Go is a sh*te airline equals to 'have a go' at Hamrah.


[This message has been edited by tilii (edited 05 March 2001).]

Tilii, the more you post the more convinced I am you are a spotty faced teenage wind-up merchant. Not only don't you have the faintest idea of the implications (or costs) of training and bonding, but now you claim that comments by the CEO of Ryanair equate to me "having a go at Hamrah"!

FYI, Hamrah and I have discussed this matter in a quiet, civilised manner privately and there is most certainly no animosity between us - so stop trying to stir it.

BA delay decision on GO and waits for KLM according to the Times 6/3/01.

KLM is unlikely to decide until the end of the month.

Four other companies also expressing an interest.

Good grief, Guvnor. I just noticed the number of your posts. You really do run off at the mouth, don't you. Like I said once before, why don't you pay more attention to your lofty ambitions and a lot less time spouting your verbal diarrhea on these pages? Spotty faced teenage wind-up merchant indeed. Harumph!

What was the subject of this topic? Ah yes, I remember.....GO NOW OWNED BY KLM?

Tilii and Guvnor - may I suggest you continue your sniping at each other elsewhere - we're getting bored with it now.

From today's UK FT:

"Leo van Wijk, chief executive of KLM, the Dutch national airline, said on Tuesday that the group had submitted a conditional offer to take over Go, British Airways' low cost subsidiary.

The offer was "conditional and contingent on BA accepting certain elements," said Mr van Wijk. "If it is acceptable we can firm it up. We want to have their reaction, then we can call it a final bid."

KLM had made the conditional offer jointly with a private equity group, he said.

The terms that are still to be agreed include the treatment of the leases on 13 of the 15 aircraft in the current Go fleet, which are presently guaranteed by BA, said Mr van Wijk.

KLM was aiming to merge Go with Buzz, its own low cost subsidiary, which also operates from London Stansted airport. "We would bring in our Buzz investment and know how to manage the group. There are enough management resources without Go," said Mr van Wijk.

It is understood that the negotiations between KLM and BA are focusing importantly on the future management structure of a merged low cost operation.

Ms Cassani has made clear that she is interested in remaining as chief executive of an independent Go and has said that she was prepared to work with the private equity groups, which showed an early interest in taking over the airline.

It is understood that the main rival offer that BA is still considering is from 3i, the venture capital and private equity group, which has previously been involved in the airline sector with its highly successful investment in the 1990s in CityFlyer Express, which was taken over by BA in late 1999.

BA has narrowed the field of preferred bidders as the sale of Go enters the final stage and last week rejected another offer made jointly by two private equity groups, Electra Partners and Barclays Private Equity.

KLM is the only established airline to have shown a sustained interest in taking over Go. It is conducting a strategic review of its future involvement in the low cost sector, and has made clear that it could choose to close or sell off its loss-making Buzz operation, if it is unable to gain the necessary scale through a merger with Go.

"Getting out is one option," said Mr van Wijk, "it is a market where only a limited number of players can survive."

Bye Bye Barbara... its back to BA you go...

And what happens to the rest of the office staff? And all those overpaid directors?

Does anyone know what the morale in the office is like now... I presume its pretty bad! At least the pilots are still needed! Have many jumped ship yet?

How many came from KLMuk in the first place? Do they want to go back?

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif
Yo copenhagen morale is good, don't worry be happy, Go will still be next year, its the Buzz people who had better start to think
what happens to their seniority when Buzz becomes GO. Remember Go are making a PROFIT
are BUZZ? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

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Not all those who wander are lost;

Gollum, That's an easy one! Buzz doesn't have a seniority list because it doesn't have any pilots. They are all employed by KLMuk.

Now Now gentlemen!

Gollum Don’t forget that Go didn’t make profits in its first few years of operations. Are Go in profit now ?

Flap40 you are correct that the Crew and most if not all the Ground staff are employed by KLMuk. As there is very little direct competition between the two airlines, ( Only two routes I Believe ) It is most likely things will just carry on the same with a gradual merge of the two Airlines. As to the eventual name is any ones guess, but as Buzz was thought up by KLM I personally would bet on that. As far as seniority is concerned, that’s easy. If Go and KLMuk do combine, Go chaps end up at the bottom of our seniority list. After all KLMuk have a very strict Last In First Out agreement. Keep Smiling and be happy.

It'll be good fun merging Buzz and Go if the takeover goes ahead . . .

How would the KLM UK resolve the two salary scales?

It's usual for companies that are doing the taking over to put the incoming people on their pay scales if they are lower, rather than increasing costs. What's the differential between KLM UK and Go?

Don't you know the answer to that one? By the way, the future's yellow

Go pay more than KLM UK quite a bit more.

Its a pilots market right now. Unless, that is, KLM were to merge the two airlines and reduce the overall size in line with business predictions.

Lets suppose that the takover happens and they decide to reduce capacity. KLM can establish their required crewing levels whilst making the bottom of the seniority list redundant. This reduces the leverage of the Go pilots who wouldn't want to join KLM on their [lower] pay scales.

KLM proved adept at imposing new working conditions on Air UK.

Its a simple tactic - We'll close the airline down if we don't get our way.

I am being devils advocate here I hasten to add. Speculation based on years in the industry.

If I was in Go I would hope for a management buyout backed by 3iii.

Seems a little ironic that BA, as far as we know, have not yet sold "GO" , and yet they are out shopping and buy another airline to replace one that they already own!
OK.... . I know British Regional is a
different beast but whats that phrase ,
..." money burning a hole in one's pocket
"

Ok lets look at all the points here
Minimas Go are heading for and are on target to make a Profit at the end of this year
I am not knocking Buzz here but the Go brand is stronger in the publics mind than Buzz (imho)the Boss man at KLM has stated that without the buyout/merger with Go Buzz may be folded (FT yesterday) if KLM do not aquire Go Go will not fold.
With Pay scales I am not in a position to comment but I can see it being a minefield.
WigWag i think the reason the Go have made a profit this year is pushing ahead with the route growth what would be the point in reducing it now.another point you make about tactics.any old AirUk people out there will remember the way it used to be "one happy family all working together" destroyed by the an atmosphere of fear, that family atmosphere that used to be in AirUk is now present in GO and I think all the ex KLMUK people who now work for GO would agree.
If Buzz and Go dont merge I am confident that Go will continue to grow i can only hope the same for BUZZ..Be happy don't worry

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Not all those who wander are lost;

Good times are on the horizon at Go meathinks.

Interesting times ahead i think, the Go pilots have a larger basic salary but lack other benefits such as final salary pension, £100,000 loss of license, free car parking, private health care etc. Perhaps if the two companies were to merge the two pilot workforces should ask for Go salary scales with KLM benefits?

There is however another rumor spreading around that it is the intention to merge just Buzz and Go together, the KLMuk side is to merged with KLM cityhopper. In other words the final break up and disposal of what was the old Air uk.

edited for bad spelling!!! :)

[This message has been edited by driver1 (edited 10 March 2001).]

Cityhopper pilots have 'rights' to KLM mainline (after 4 years service), and notional KLM seniority.

I would say the Dutch pilots union, the VNV would be very anti such a merger.
Plus KLMuk is very cheap for KLM, the Dutch employment laws make it very expensive to employ Dutch pilots.

On the surface it makes total sense, same aircraft types, both feed AMS etc, interesting times ahead !

The latest from the FT at:

http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pag...H7C&Collid=Any

Interesting to note that the management team is values by KLM and may be retained. Bodes well for a merger perhaps?

Very interesting article wig wag!

Interesting that Babs says she is keen to work with the new owner and klm say that they admire the existing team at Go, sounds like the deal is done to me!! I have heard that Babs has been seen at the KLmuk hq (bendover house) alot recently!! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

It would seem to bode well for Go at this time.

If KLM gets out of the low cost market Go would stand better as a (just) profitable airline with reduced competition and backed by 3i who now what they are doing. If KLM buys Go then that is because they view taking market share in low cost airline tickets as profitable. There is certainly a lot of capacity to take up in the low cost market.

What is encouraging, and I speak as a pilot, is that Go's management have stood out as a valuable asset. Companies these days (in any sector) just cannot afford weak management practices.

A big plus is Stansted which must be a better airport for a low cost airline than Luton.

I'll take view here that Go will eventually be a strong player. Perhaps Buzz will be merged into Go trading on a stronger brand.

What I do hope for is that the pilots get merged properly. I.E on good deals with amicable relationships.

Hmmm...., people seem to have short memories - a recent quote (earlier on in this thread) from the CEO of KLM, seemed to suggest that they would not be requiring GO's management - now they say they will retain it !

"We would bring in our Buzz investment and know how to manage the group. There are enough management resources without Go," said Mr van Wijk.

[This message has been edited by buzz driver (edited 10 March 2001).]

A few comments as a bystander to the grand debate.

I'm led to believe that BA is not negotiating directly with KLM re Go. What I have a sneaking feeling is going on is this. 3i are negotiating with both BA for Go and with KLM about Buzz with a view to buying both, amalgamating the businesses under 3i ownership and then seeking a stock market flotation for it in due course.

This would allow the businesses to take out any duplication of their route networks; achieve some economies of scale in admin, advertising and operations and have a much stronger route network, thereby improving the presence of whichever brand they choose to retain. It does make some sense.

As to the management debate, personally, I do think some actions by Go's management in the initial phase of the company's operations contributed heavily to the losses in the first two years. These were primarily of a commercial nature (poor route selection, low aircraft utilisation, extensive & costly nightstops away from base) but these have, by and large, been corrected. Whether those mistakes could have been avoided in the first place is another issue. Buzz have, at least, managed to avoid those errors and I think some credit is due to its management for that alone.

Quote from Wig Wag "A big plus is Stansted which must be a better airport for a low cost airline than Luton"

Can't really agree with that statement. For a true low cost airline a big consideration must me the turnaround time. Faster turnarounds mean more rotations. The problem for Stansted is that it is a victim of its own success with long queues for takeoff and landings at peak periods. This is one reason why easyjet will always remain at Luton despite their constant winging. Luton also has a far bigger catchment area that extends up into the Midlands. Have you every tried to get from Coventry or Birmingham to Stansted.