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PBS Frontline is doing a one-hour investigative documentary on the airline industry since deregulation - with a focus on the rise of regional airlines - and the concerns that are brought to light with Colgan 3407. We are looking for some pilots to speak candidly with us (on background if need be) and we are also trying to get some access to a seasoned Q400 pilot inside a full mission simulator. If you have any suggestions, you can respond here - or send an email to the reporter: pilot/plane owner - and former CNN correspondent - Miles O'Brien. [email protected]

Hope you get some great leads from this post, Miles. I haven't been in the commuter business for decades but others here are living the dream and can provide insight.

I'll never forget your sober and seasoned reporting of the Columbia disaster, thanks!

Welcome to PPRuNe Miles.

As well, glad to see some hard news research being conducted here. Being from the exact opposite side of the aviation spectrum gives some insight into what it's like 'in the trenches', but it would be nice to see an original investigation free of mainstream media pressures to publish or perish.

The journalists and researchers who work with Frontline are some of the finest and unbiased in news media today:D.

It would be fantastic a few of their researchers could obtain a temporary IDs, and be assigned to commuting and non-commuting crewmembers so they can experience what it is like to commute to and from work, have limited time at home with the family, experience long duty days, minimum rest periods, and crappy noisy layover hotels.

Unfortunately management of regionals don’t have the balls to invite these legitimate journalists onto their property and perform above ground fact finding research.

To the Frontline team... keep up the good work:ok:.

I considered signing up at one of the schools. I suspect someone would have recognized me!

Another welcome to pprune Mr. O'Brien, and I would also like to commend you on your space coverage on CNN (fighting for time must not have been easy)

I look forward to seeing this report, Frontline is one of the few shows where I am not second guessing everything they say (although I keep a critical eye open! ;) )

Welcome aboard Miles.........there are plenty of well informed experienced professional pilots that are members of pprune, the trouble sometimes is sorting the wheat from the chaff :ok:

Miles, always thought of you as straight shooter. Good luck and am looking forward to your Frontline program.

Btw, thank gawd you are no longer associated with CNN and that other "O'Brien."

Also, plz spread to your fellow journalists, no one in the airline industry calls it the "tarmac" at least not in the U.S. It's called the "ramp."

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The journalists and researchers who work with Frontline are some of the finest and unbiased in news media today.

So true. :ok:

Parker P 51 time involved in colgan crash? Just wondering.

Miles,

just one request:

please, please, leave the sensationalistic aspect out. I know that it is good for ratings, but unfortunately that's what constitutes a credibility loss among most media outlets.

Good luck.

PBS is the last to sensationalize anything, they are very good at just reporting the facts. That shows in their ratings unfortunately when most viewers are looking for suspenseful drama

PBS is also very good at showing reruns of "The Lawrence Welk Show". I enjoy it very much.

Does anyone know if this documentary will be available on the internet?

Sadly, any 'expose' of regionals, Colgan, FAA, 'fatigue', or 'low-time', 'rest' etc. etc. will of course be sensational. The only solution lies in accountability. The lack thereof is breathtaking, in corporate and regulatory entities both. The only attention that should obtain to this sad situation is Headlines. So sad that to create accountability requires some form of published notoriety or punishment, in front of everyone. Just as we see the start of change (or not) from any direction, some other hole in the dike will appear, and people will die unnecessarily. The only thing that ever works in any democracy is criminal sanction and punishment. A 'wink' and a 'nod' should mean jail time, IMO.

"Does anyone know if this documentary will be available on the internet?"

Normally PBS Frontline episodes can viewed online after transmission
@ FRONTLINE: home | PBS

Are you really the real Miles?

Based on his original post, I would suspect so. Trolls usually aren't that articulate.

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Accountability is the absolute key issue. I worked in a regional airlines’ flight operations management for 7 years, and there is no doubt in my mind that “the system” has been deliberately designed to upstream control to the majors while keeping accountability for operations and maintenance downstream at the regional.

Marketing, scheduling of the aircraft (the life blood of an airline) and financial control all reside on the major airline side of what is, literally, an accountability firewall. Operations and maintenance – those are kept on the regional side of the firewall.

And the problem is developing within the major airlines themselves. The system of holding companies and code sharing agreements needs to be addressed so that accountability for the quality of the operation flows from every airplane in an airline’s colors all the way to the board room at the top of the corporate structure.

Side note -- The number of private pilots (or student pilots) has dropped substantially, which has to have an affect someday on the pool of commercial pilots airlines have to choose from.

How many of you decided you wanted to be a pilot after a brief look at the cockpit of a commercial jet plane? How many kids get the chance now?

Fuel costs are up and passengers traveling are down. It won't be pretty for a long time, but events one September kept many future "I want to be a pilot because I'm in love with airplanes" from having the chance to fall in love.

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The number of private pilots (or student pilots) has dropped substantially, which has to have an affect someday on the pool of commercial pilots airlines have to choose from.

Hopefully this may improve the T&C of the commuter sweat shops.

Miles there are many facets to the accountability issues the other guys raise here.

One is the total breakdown of carrier reporting of Service Difficulty Reports.

From two earlier surveys I had done ( "Frivolous SDRs" and "Annex 2008 (SDR under reporting"), Dave Evans in Aviation Safety Digest, has just published a article "Distracting Attention From Systemic Safety Shortcomings".
See Link > Distracting Attention From Systemic Safety Shortcomings|Aviation Safety Journal Dave can provide you with my e-mail,

Thanks for the good work at PBS

First post; still trying to find my way around here.

According to the Wikipedia link provided in an earlier post, Miles O'Brien moved recently from PBS to FOX.

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According to the Wikipedia link provided in an earlier post, Miles O'Brien moved recently from PBS to FOX.

Ahh yes... Fox... the experts of media innacuracies.

All comes down to ONE thing...

Mr O'Brien,

If you are indeed associated with the PBS program "Frontline," my congratulations, as it is the absolute pinnacle of investigative reporting in the United States.

If ANY serious investigation of the aviation industry is to take place, the first, second, last and ONLY thing that matters is MONEY. The situation at Colgan (commuters who cannot afford to live in the cities in which they are based, low-time, inexperienced first officers who have never seen icing before, the lack of training in simulated icing and/or stall conditions, etc, etc, etc..) is no different at many other carriers, including the most famous in the world.

Can you imagine someone who has never flown a 747 going from ZERO training in the aircraft to being required to complete his aircraft systems exam within FIVE days of training beginning? It happens EVERY DAY in the United States.

If you have ANY peripheral interest at all in this training/experience/cost equation, simply look around THIS website at the amount of "pay to play" training, which is now often required by prospective employers and check out the amount of contract training and hiring that is taking place across the globe.

I wish you the very best of luck in your quest for the truth of this subject, as it will provide me a very good gauge on whether I should "trust" Frontline as much as I do. Nothing solidifies one's perspective on reporting as much watching/listening to that reporting on a subject on which one considers oneself an SME.

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Ahh yes... Fox... the experts of media innacuracies.

Maybe he should have stayed with CNN::)

CNN Drops to Last Place Among Cable News Networks - Media Decoder Blog - NYTimes.com

742;

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I suggest that you try to get hold of the Commission of Inquiry Into the Air Ontario Crash at Dryden, Ontario - Final Report Volume III, (Parts six through nine), The Hon. Virgil Moshansky, Commissioner, 1992. The points you make are clearly detailed in this Inquiry as are the failures of the Regulator, (Transport Canada) to oversee this operation and the relationship between the mainline carrier and the regional carrier. While much has changed in terms of regulatory reform, we are again reducing that under SMS, and entering a period of extended "deregulation of flight safety" where the lack of oversight by Transport is targeted is once again occurring. Hopefully there are enough of the "old school" left to intervene where necessary.

The Dryden Report is difficult to find. I am unsure whether that is by design or by lack of interest. Give it a try as it is well worth reading.

A very interesting 2005 speech by the Dryden Report's author, Virgil Moshansky, can be found here:

http://www.buksa.com/halifax/docs/H5...-Moshansky.pdf

India four two;

Also, here is the link to Moshansky's presentation to the Royal Aeronautical Society at ICAO Headquarters in Montreal on October 16, 2007. The paper was entitled, "The Role of the Judiciary in Aviation Safety: The Inside Story and Legacy of Dryden.

Moshansky states, in part:

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THE ROLE OF THE JUDICIARY IN AVIATION SAFETY

The Inside Story and Legacy of Dryden
by
The Honourable Virgil P. Moshansky, C.M., Q.C., FRAeS
Justice of the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta (Ret.)
and
Donald L Van Dyke, FRAeS *
Chairman, Royal Aeronautical Society – Montreal Branch

Presented at Montreal ICAO headquarters, on October 16, 2007

ABSTRACT: The Commission of Inquiry into the Air Ontario Crash at Dryden, Ontario was appointed in 1989 just days after a tragic accident in which twenty-four were killed. The Government of Canada called on Mr. Justice Virgil P Moshansky of the Court of Queen’s Bench of Alberta, a licensed pilot, to conduct the inquiry. His mandate was to inquire into and report on the contributing factors and causes of the crash, and to make such recommendations as he may deem appropriate in the interests of aviation safety.

This paper reviews systemic conditions preceding the accident, details unique challenges facing what became the most exhaustive judicial review in aviation history, cautions that current conditions are perilously familiar, and proposes permanent roles for the judiciary in organizational approaches to aircraft accident investigation and international aviation safety enhancement.

1.3.2. My first experience with CASB practice occurred shortly after my appointment when I, together with my Counsel and expert advisors, met in Ottawa with the outgoing CASB Executive to arrange handover of initial investigation records to my Commission. I was taken aback by the counsel of a senior CASB member suggesting that I undoubtedly would wish to massage investigator reports and witness interviews, which he made clear was CASB practice. The term “massage” in this context meant to me manipulation of accident investigator findings to fit an agenda, which later events suggested was not to unduly disturb the aviation industry’s comfort with its own performance.

1.3.3. Frankly, coming from a judicial background where one seeks to ascertain truth rather than subvert it, I was appalled by this advice and dismissed it out of hand. With such questionable ethics, it is small wonder that the CASB and Arrow Air accident investigation were discredited.

1.3.3.1. Independence and dignity. At first, the Privy Council Office in Ottawa advised that the Inquiry would be established as a departmental investigation under Part II of the Inquires Act, under the auspices of the Minister of Transport to whom my Commission would be directly answerable. I immediately objected, recognizing that Transport Canada Civil Aviation3, as one of the integral components of the aviation system, would be a subject of the Inquiry since I intended to probe possible related failings on the part of the regulator. I insisted upon and obtained agreement from the Government for my Commission to be constituted under Part I of the Inquiries Act, reporting to the Governor General in Council, to assure its independence, dignity and public profile as an objective body.

1.3.3.2. Transparency. Transparency is an essential element of credibility and to this end, I ensured that Commission hearings were public and open to the media, that daily briefings were provided, and that I and my advisors were available for interviews when requested. Extensive national and local television, radio and print media coverage generated massive interest and focused public attention on Canada’s aviation system. Eventually, this pressured both government and regulator to act on recommendations made in my reports.

1.3.3.3. Freedom from constraint or influence. The Commission mandate, obtained from the government as a condition of my accepting appointment, was not limited to investigation of the Dryden accident but included all components of the aviation system with a charge to make recommendations in the interests of aviation safety generally.

1.4. Challenges to the Commission
1.4.1. Upon the Commission being organized and headquartered in Toronto, I dispatched senior investigators to Ottawa to seek production of all Transport Canada records related to Air Ontario and its F-28 operations, as well as certain Transport Canada witnesses identified as critical to the Inquiry. Rebuffed by Transport Canada management, the Commission investigators returned to Toronto virtually empty-handed.

1.4.2. At this point, the power and value of a Commission of Inquiry became very apparent. Only after giving notice to Transport Canada that I would issue subpoenas to senior management to appear before the Inquiry were the requests granted, although not completely. Transport Canada refused to release 24 documents and sheltered them from Commission review, citing provisions of Section 39 of the Canada Evidence Act.

1.4.3. A certificate issued by the Clerk of the Privy Council stated that these documents contained confidences of the Privy Council for Canada (an elaborate term for Cabinet secrets) but revealed nothing as to their nature. It is not unreasonable to assume that this claim to confidence originated with Transport Canada. Is it conceivable that this was done to withhold evidence of regulatory mismanagement or Cabinet-level interference? We will never know since the documents remain a state secret.

1.4.4. Apart from invoking state secrets provisions of Section 39 of the Canada Evidence Act, Transport Canada continued efforts to confine the Dryden Inquiry to the facts of the accident itself, as opposed to a system-wide investigation. Counsel for Transport Canada alleged that I was going beyond the terms of my mandate and threatened to seek a Federal Court injunction unless I backed off. I elected to continue to interpret my mandate broadly. These demands to limit the scope of my Inquiry, after it had barely begun, came to the notice of the national media. Senior Transport Canada officials, in their wisdom, ordered threats of legal action against me withdrawn and an era of relative cooperation with the regulator ensued, for the eventual good of all.

1.4.5. The counsel for Air Ontario challenged my intention to name in the Final Report individuals found culpable of contributing factors to the crash. Air Ontario brought action against me in the Federal Court of Canada seeking an injunction requiring that I make only generic findings in my Final Report and that I be prevented, firstly, from making findings of misconduct against any individuals and, secondly, from naming any individuals found culpable. I did not intend to make findings of misconduct against any individuals but I did intend to make adverse findings against individuals where justified by evidence. I would report findings fairly and accurately but could not do so without identifying individuals, entities and organizations - at all levels of responsibility - who had been afforded full benefit of the principles on natural justice during the Inquiry. The Inquiry was adjourned while the issue was tried in Federal Court on an expedited basis. The outcome was favourable for the Commission. The Air Ontario action to muzzle me was dismissed and many names appeared in my Final Report.

1.4.6. The Canadian Air Line Pilots Association (CALPA) had full standing before the Commission. Counsel for CALPA, supported by Counsel for Air Ontario, brought an application to prevent calling five Air Ontario pilots as witnesses to discuss post-crash statements made to their company Safety Officer related to the airline’s F-28 operations. The applicants claimed the statements were privileged, based on confidentially. The evidence of these pilot witnesses was critical to the conduct of a full Inquiry and, after considering legal argument, I ruled that safety must trump confidentiality. The pilots were required to testify.

1.4.7. Finally, it was industry’s turn to take a run at me and my Commission, viewed by many in the industry as an outsider threat to the status quo. This hostility was exemplified in remarks by the Principal and Chief Pilot of a business jet charter operation in Calgary published in Aviation Canada in 1991, in which he criticized the clean wing regulation, enacted by Transport Canada based on recommendations contained in my Second Interim Report dealing with the ground de-icing of aircraft. He described the new law as a “crock” and stated that “there is a lot of nonsense about contaminated wings emanating out of the offices of the Department of Transport for the past few months”. He concluded his article by stating “… we should at least be hoping that we have learned a few lessons from it all... the inevitable waste of time, money and effort inherent in judges and lawyers becoming involved in matters better handled by someone who understands the problem”. Naturally, I regarded the latter statement as a personal shot, but in a way it was useful as it illustrated that we had some distance to go in order to combat ignorance and achieve a heightened awareness in the aviation community of all aspects of the wing contamination issue.4

1.4.8. The foregoing is some, but not all, of the inside story never before publicly told of how my Commission’s role was expanded - against widespread opposition - from that of simply investigating the Dryden crash into a comprehensive probe of the state of national aviation safety generally.

Welcome Miles to one of the authoritative sources for accurate, timely info.

You surely mean welcome to this Forum, WileyDog, and not to Faux News...

I think Obrien isn't with Fox news. I think he was a guest recently on the Fox Business Channel to speak about and during the famous Balloon Boy incident.

AFAIK, Miles isn't employed by FOXNews. He did make a guest appearance as an aviation expert, and, from what I saw, made a reasonably good showing for himself when speaking of the Balloon Boy story.

O'Brien is certainly fair to aviation when he reports on it, and one cannot think bad of him for shopping himself around a bit.

Of course, the old reaganism applies: Trust, but verify.

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First post; still trying to find my way around here. According to the Wikipedia link provided in an earlier post, Miles O'Brien moved recently from PBS to FOX.

Off to a great start. :rolleyes:

From the link that you quote, it says the following.

On October 15, 2009, Miles made an appearance on Fox Business News covering the breaking news story of the Colorado runaway mylar helium balloon with a supposedly trapped child inside the balloon.

That said, you'll fit right in here.

Most of the US regional pilots are on Flightinfo.com

Some very interesting reading there.

Dryden Warning Ignored

Thanks India four two and PJ2 for update on Moshansky. Three years after the Dryden accident I warned of similar risks in Australia - http://avstop.com/news/airontario.html
The warning was rubbished by Australia's regulatory authority but proved prescient by Australia's 1995 Parliamentary "Inquiry into Aviation Safety - the Comumuter and General Aviation Sector" and 1996 Commission of Inquiry into Relations Between the CAA and Seaview Air. Pity that we are still learning similar lessons.