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-   -   Air France A330-200 missing (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/375937-air-france-a330-200-missing.html)

Jumpseat777 1st Jun 2009 11:12

Without getting into specifics..AF fleet is tracked via constant ACARS reporting updated landing times...etc..to destination and en route stations. This is filtered news reporting to me. I have a feeling the S&R is being located to a certain area as thats last confirmed position. Think the rest is just speculation. Hope all are safe, but to me this might not have a happy ending..

Speed of Sound 1st Jun 2009 11:13

If the aircraft has ACARS (which I am sure it must have) then a report of height, speed and position is reported every minute
In which case the reported loss of contact time must be incorrect.

If Brazilian authorities are searching that part of the Atlantic, then we must assume that AF have passed on any flight data they have to the Brazilians.

If a catastrophic failure, then position data received every minute would provide a location accurate to +/- 10 miles.


dangrey 1st Jun 2009 11:15

Quite possibly the "0600 GMT" time is wrong and the aircraft went missing earlier.

But if it has been lost over deep Atlantic SAR resources will be limited. Normally a search would be conducted by commercial vessels in the area, later joined by any naval ships that can make the area in reasonable time.

After that, it's a case of the searching for and recovery of the wreckage. Where-ever it is they'll have a good idea of where the aircraft is lying from the last ACARS report. Black boxes have sonar beacons to aid their location.

sandylanding 1st Jun 2009 11:19

this is a deeply worrying time, and thoughts are clearly with the families. what struck me is that if communication was lost during heavy turbulence and the rescue aircraft were launched then some report from them must be available from brazil, unless we are looking at something quite horrific. if it had ditched then shouldn't a rescue beacon give a position when it touches the water.

Jumpseat777 1st Jun 2009 11:20

To all speculating GZCP has the whole array..GPS SATCOM ACARS SELCAL..no airline is going to get into the specifics without facts..this will be treated as aircraft missing comm lost till the first sign of contact in whatever form that might be :-(. AF MCC has live tracking as well and I have a feeling loss of contact times will be corrected too. The ELT would have been triggered too.. so there will be something soon

Dani 1st Jun 2009 11:28

JS777: well of course modern equipment has the full range. But Acars is lost when out of VHF coverage, roughly 100NM off a coast. Selcal is via HF. The only thing that's left is Satcom over the sea. Acars and Selcal can be coupled to Satcom. But if this last system is defect, you loose that too.

Remember Swissair SR111 Halifax, where they lost all electricals after an onboard fire. One could speculate that you still can fly 100's of miles without any communication link, and that makes tracking much more difficult.

I don't say you are not right, I just want to put everything into perspective.


fjouve 1st Jun 2009 11:28

A Breguet-Atlantique just took off out of Dakar in order to possibly locate the plane off African coast.

racedo 1st Jun 2009 11:30

Seems like Pprune users stats gone through the roof as people using this as main source of collated news.

Thats why its better to leave the ill informed speculation to Sky.

baob2oba 1st Jun 2009 11:36

AF press conference at AF CDG HQ expected at 1200z

ADP ( Paris Airports Company ): " no more hope "

French transport ministry : " very low probability of hijacking/terrorist attack "

AF website overloading, impossible to log in


gramlin 1st Jun 2009 11:41

Short bulletin from AF;
Vol Air France 447 Rio de Janeiro - Paris-Charles de Gaulle

EGNS 1st Jun 2009 11:44

NASA/MSFC Interactive GOES Data Selector

Really bad weather out there. Electrical short circuit in severe turbulence.

hangten 1st Jun 2009 11:46

Sky News:

'Plane sent message it had electrical short circuit after strong turbulence'

'Short circuit message received at 02:14 UTC, 15 minutes after turbulence'

HalloweenJack 1st Jun 2009 11:55

an i ask what are (or were ) the meteorological conditions in the area at the time?

Xeque 1st Jun 2009 11:56

SAM1191 post number #45
If this is accurate then it puts the aircraft 4 hours 20 minutes into the flight and some 500 NM SSW of the Cape Verde Islands.
So why did the Brazilians launch a SAR mission? The aircraft, at that time, would have been well clear of Brazilian airspace and closer to West Africa.
An earlier report of severe weather in the area is also significant.
CAT leading to catastrophic airframe failure?

barrybeebone 1st Jun 2009 11:57

Hangten, I just read your message and 2 seconds later CNN reported the electrical short circuit. I hope Sky news got it from a good source. Speculation in these incidents don't help anyone but the advertisers in news bureaus.

betpump5 1st Jun 2009 11:58

Air France was facing the worst crash in its history today after a passenger jet with 228 people aboard went missing over the Atlantic on a flight from Brazil.

Flight AF447 took off from Rio de Janeiro at 7.30pm last night bound for Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris, where it was due to arrive at 11.15am (0915GMT).

But there was confusion as to where it may have come down.

The Paris airport authority said that it had lost radar contact with the Airbus A300-200 at 0600 GMT, only three hours before its arrival time, which would suggest that it could have come down near Europe, probably off the Azores.

The 10 most deadly air disasters
British businessman killed in Brazil air crash
But the Brazilian Air Force said that the plane disappeared about 300 km northeast of the Brazilian coastal city of Natal, near the archipelago of Fernando de Noronha, from where a search-and-rescue mission was mounted this morning.

The aircraft's apparent failure to send any distress message suggests that it could have been victim of a sudden, violent event – a mechanical breakdown, accidental explosion in the hold or terrorist attack, although Jean-Louis Borloo, the French transport minister, ruled out the possibility of a hijack.

A spokeswoman for the airline said: "Air France announces with regret that it is without news of flight AF447 from Rio to Paris, which has 216 passengers aboard, and shares the fears of the families involved."

Air France said that there were a total of 12 crew aboard the plane, including three technicians.

An official at the Paris airport authority said: "We are very worried. The plane disappeared from the screens several hours ago. It could be a transponder problem, but this kind of fault is very rare and the plane did not land when expected."

Airport authorities have set up a crisis cell at Charles de Gaulle and Air France said all those waiting for the flight would be given access to a special waiting area at the airport's second terminal.

The aircraft in question, tail number F-GZCP, came into service in February 2005.

President Sarkozy's office said that he had asked authorities to "do all they could" to help find the missing aircraft. In a statement, the Elysée said that the President had been informed of the loss of contact this morning and had expressed "the greatest anxiety".

Brazil had two major plane crashes in 2006 and 2007, raising concerns about the safety of air travel in Latin America’s largest country.

In July 2007, all 187 people on board and 12 people on the ground died when a TAM airline Airbus A 320 overshot a runway at Sao Paulo’s Congonhas airport.

Airways B 1st Jun 2009 12:03

Looks Turbulent but I wouldn't know how different from the 'norm' this is.


nyt 1st Jun 2009 12:08

As long as no abnormal seismic event has been reported in the area, one can hope that touchdown was somehow survivable..

Christodoulidesd 1st Jun 2009 12:13

"Brasilian government sources report, that the airplane also disappeared from military radars (primary radars), that do not depend on transponder signals."

source: Crash: Air France A332 over Atlantic on June 1st 2009, aircraft missing

Jumpseat777 1st Jun 2009 12:13


True.. and a good clarification. On Air France the systems are coupled and if you are flying with a known defective system then there your route planning (ETOPS limited) is affected so they would not fly into known blind spots. Of course it could have happened en route. But again you have made a fair point. The flight seemed to have sent a msg to MCC indicating a short circuit..again I have a feeling this will be clarified to something specific. But that would be a ACARS transmission. For an accident or an incident its always multiple causes. 3 techies(false media reporting) or an AOG recovery from Rio?

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