Is this bad pilot practice or am I being harsh?
 

Travelling as SLF from Scotland to London last week, on BA narrowbody aircraft. (Won't give anymore details than that, so as to keep this identity free...)

Approximately slightly north of EGBB (I could see it below a few minutes later...), Captain appeared from flight deck, & started talking to other SLF in row 1.

He looked like he'd had a long duty day, no tie, and top three buttons undone, hair very messy etc etc.

I then felt the aircraft start descent, out of the FL330 that Capt had previously stated on pa. Also, we started a couple of gentle turns, which I expect were due to ATC vectoring (after all that's some busy airspace in that area...)

The skipper didn't seem bothered that the aircraft was conducting such manoevres, and kept talking with row 1 for about another 3 or 4 mins before returning to flight deck.

So, my question - should the skipper have returned immediately, upon feeling the aircraft's attitude change ? Wasn't it a bit too much to expect f/o to do this alone in such busy airspace? Is this bad pratice? Should he have put his tie on, and looked a bit smarter for the SLF ?

I may be wrong, esp. as I'm not a pilot (I am in the industry), but I reckon he was wrong on both accounts... Please correct me as neccessary.... for I am willing to be told so...

Comments ?

Rgds
Z.

Yes, as to the state of his dress which, with pilots, often seem to reflect the state of their flying disciplines as well.
As to the start of descent, there are still two pilots up front, Autopilot and Copilot, and between them they should be able to cope with a couple of turns!

Zones - <<I may be wrong, esp. as I'm not a pilot>>: These 2 statements are the only sensible things in your posting. Glad you have nothing better to worry about apart from "Only me, you don't want to do it like that..." BTW, what exactly DO you do in the business if you're so well informed then?

There is the possibility that he was in the jump seat as a route check captain, or training captain. Still would be better if he looked a bit tidier in front of SLF of course.

Barcode: Without wanting to otherwise interfere, "Zones" is part of the Freight business (like me).


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rgds Rat

Don't be such a prat, Barcode.
There is such a thing as self respect, you know.
.......or perhaps you're one of those ultra modern d**k***ds who thinks we should come to work in jeans ?

:rolleyes: ;) ;)

I think you probably hit the nail on the head with "He looked like he'd had a long duty day.."

It is obviously desirable to always present a tidy appearance however on the grounds of been there, done that, and got the (grubby) tee shirt, It doesn't always happen.

Being human, the pilots often need to answer the call of nature in flight, and sometimes just need to stretch their legs. It often happens that using headsets all day, hair does get messy. Clothing gets crumpled and stained with biro's and window grease and meal trays and spilt coffee etc.
On short flights (eg shuttles) it may be necessary to leave the flight deck even though the aircraft is manouvering. This is not desirable but it sometimes happens.

As any Pilot will tell you, manageing an aircraft can sometimes be a tireing, hot, grimey, busy, frustrating business. We would always like to present a tidy appearance but it doesn't always happen. If this is all you had to worry about on your flight then I don't think you have too much of a complaint.

Leaving the other guy - Each pilot is certificated (to the same operational standard) by the CAA to fly the aircraft - on their own, if needs be.
Certainly when in the upper flight-levels I wouldn't be too concerned about only one chap at the controls, but if one of the pilots was still chatting with pax in row 1 when the gear came down.... well that's a different matter.

Ties, hats, grooming - No tie, a few buttons undone, hair a bit dishevelled ? Who cares !
I'd much rather the bloke was comfortable & cool (in all respects) and doing a good job, e.g. just how many twats do we all know who hide behind their sharp suits / uniform in lieu of their ability ?! Gotta say that, imho, it cuts a certain dash, i.e. a veritable exhibition of the stable extravert trait so desired in a good pilots personality profile ! e.g. I fit right in ;)

Long Duty Day - Now this is indeed worthy of comment.
If our office bound brethren had to work the length of day that we as flight crew have to work on a regular basis they'd be up in arms and spouting on about either the 'Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Act 1963' and / or the newer Working Time Regulations - both acts which I understand the air transport industry is, strangely, exempt from ?! I.e. your aircraft won't crash coz his tie wasn't on, or his hair wasn't brushed - it'll crash coz the crew are knackered !


[This message has been edited by Old King Coal (edited 28 May 2001).]

It's SOP in our airline that you do not visit the cabin for social purposes.

The description sounds like my medical examiner !

I dont know about who should or should not be on the flight deck, but never forget the travelling public's perception of flight crew. The majority of us who work and travel in the industry probably couldnt give a rats ass whether the crew are dressed in a morning suit or just their underwear, as long as they can do their job to the best of their ability we're generally happy.
The majority of other passengers who aren't quite as savvy, expect the crew to be smartly dressed and look the part. Even if you've had a long day, got lipstick on your trousers, etc. you have an aura of professionalism to maintain, and it doesnt look good if you wander around with your pants down. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

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It wasn't me.

It does sound as if this pilot had had a hard day. However, it doesn't take 2 secs to make a slight improvement (3 buttons undone), if for no other reason than to show a bit of resect to the cabin crew who are supposed to look their best. Also, if the pilot looks unshaven and tired, it doesn't inspire the SLF who want him/her to be at their best to land the sucker.

When the chips are down I don't care if the guy in the other seat looks like he's just done ten rounds with Tyson, so long as he's good at what he does.

Personally I try and look reasonable when the SLF are about, and to set some sort of example to the CC.

If what you wear is a measure of who you are then according to the 'rules' espoused above Richard Branson (who never wears either a suit or a tie) shouldn't really be where he is, should he ?!

And what about Sir John Harvey Jones - a bloke more commonly known for his flamboyant suits and ties, than for his stewardship of the multi-billion £ corporation that is / was I.C.I. !

Ps. Come to that, what a about Big Bird (well, everybody has heard of him, right ? ) , e.g. ever noticed that it's nearly always the non-conformists who seem to be the ones raking in the mega-bucks ?!

Zones you are wrong on both accounts!! Simple. Tell us what u do then we will come along experience 2hrs in your occupation then tell U how to do it!

Do us all a favour and travel by train next time!

[This message has been edited by CRP5 (edited 28 May 2001).]

Well Guys. I fly B757 from UK to most holiday destinations in Europe, Med, Canaries etc. Our company manuals suggest that it is best to remove your tie whilst operating for comfort reasons!!!! As for his hair.....My hair (when in need of a cut) often get in a state because of my headset!! :)
PS Must be a mistake...A BA captain with hair???? :) :)
Eff Oh!

There are many BA Flight Crew who live in Scotland. A large percentage of domestic flights have a crewmember positioning on the flight deck, and it is possible that this gentlemen was one of these people.
While I do not excuse his dress sense, I feel confident that you were in safe hands.

Airclues

Thought Zones asked a reasonable question asking for comments? Judging by some of the replies, no wonder pilots are held in such high regard! If you can't answer in a civil manner, wouldn't Sigmund suggest a certain personal inadequacy??

Walter, given the above I'd imagine that you mean 'which is it then to be ?!', i.e. would you rather a pilot who's a shrinking violet, or a pilot who's a cutting & thrusting type chap, or perhaps a pilot who's somewhere in the middle, i.e. the preceding, in various combinations ?! possibly a case of damned if you do, and damned if you don't

Also, I for one, certainly don't see a need to defend my profession to lay-people whom cast (what is almost certainly) dispersions on my / our profession and fellow colleagues - and certainly so when their prognosis is based mostly on how a chap looks (neigh, the cut of his jib), and / or their limited knowledge of airline operational procedures / practice, etc..

Barcode and crp5,
I think zones has asked a very reasonable question , after all is it not the case that heading and level instructions are confirmed with the other pilot before being input into the auto pilot( or is Daventry just such an easy piece of airspace that this is not necessary). I suspect the guy was positioning but your defence does your profession no good whatsoever.

I agree with Captain Airclues. I too think that you were in safe hands, but I do get a bee in my bonnet when I see those in our profession who chose to present themselves in public looking like characters from 'On The Buses'.

However, with a military background, being at times under heavy public scrutiny, my sense of appearance & bearing is slightly heightened in comparison to those that are not.