Pilots who overshot Hawaii runway fired, face FAA action
 

Sir OldTora
 

Early on in Thread it was reported both crew admitted to NTSB investigators that they had slept at controls several times before.
See "Asleep, Fatigue Thread" same forum

Airfoil

I quite agree
 

I appreciate your loyalty and justice for the aircrew, I may have placed too much credence with the report. Knowing the Union actively defended them at the outset, and the termination happened so quickly, one expects the worst. As a personnel issue, it is likely the "report" will not be available, for obvious reasons; the NTSB report having a different goal (safety) probably will be made public, but not for some time.

Airfoil

If I had to guess
 

I would say to avoid exposure to a possible Libel action. I think Mesa employees are Contract personnel, and must be terminated for cause. Since the Airline has released them, one assumes cause was found, sufficient to avoid any repercussions from the Union and or the Individuals.

Payne Stewart
 

Had an 02 problem in the Lear (35?). But in that case, all died well before crashing. F-16 reported Thick ice on the Inside of the A/C windows. In this case, the Pax did NOT fall asleep or die, and they are somewhat pissed. I think it's a closed show, Pick your battles and all that.

Out

I’m curious to know if the cabin crew, or passengers felt light headed or head achy, or even more fatigued, thus suggesting a problem with the pressurization system.

Checking the GO website, http://www.iflygo.com/ the flgiht schedules don't appear to start too early or end very late. Wonder what kind of rest they are given between daily rosters.

Oh well... yawnnnnn.... I guess these two lads will have all the time to sleep on the beach.

Not professional enough it seems.

PPL with a question:

If you've had a heavy roster, feel yourself uncontrollably nodding off, and the guy next to you is doing likewise, what should you do?

Maybe you should have gone to bed instead of the cockpit...

Answer for PPL
 

In this scenario, I'd guess 1st check the rest of the crew and passengers, if they're also feeling tired- - - - -there's a problem, and the need to get clean fresh air in the plane would be a priority. If it's just the cockpit crew, order some strong coffee.
Cheers

How the heck do you fall asleep on such as short flight ? Long haul I could imagine, but this...... !?!

This does raise an important topic, Is it ever OK to sleep, power nap, rest ones eyes or simply rest whilst the other crew member takes over all duties?

I must admit that sometimes I feel very sleepy on flight duty, and just to explain that I do fly short haul. Sometimes asking ones colleague if its ok to shut ones peerers for a few mins (10-20) seems like the best solution.

As far as I am aware medically I'm fine, no blood sugar issues, I don't party or drink but I do suffer from disturbed nights due a few squealers at home. Normally the first sector is OK but I can get really tired all of a sudden. I rise to the ocassion when required and when its quiet I can get tired.

Am I normal? I've never had a colleague express any concern or make any objection to my request for a few minutes rest. Perhaps they do have uncommunicated reservations, and I do feel a bit guilty for needing the respite in the first place.

Its a pity that this issue is not really addressed in the short haul sector, pilots have fallen asleep before and it will probably happen again.

Your creative or constructive opinion would be appreciated.:hmm: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzz

Bit of perspective
 

Not sure how or what happened enroute Hilo, but in answer to the second last post, how's this for a bit of perspective:

During the First World War, British and allied soldiers on sentry duty in the trenches were not to fall asleep. Those that did were executed by firing squad. Many were shot, yet, still, soldiers on sentry duty inexplicably fell asleep.

The body will sleep if severely fatigued, regardless of the perceived consequences.

It is therefore very important to power nap if you cannot stay awake in the cruise. Failure to do so is to invite micro-sleeps on final approach when falling asleep for even a second can be devastating.

Other than that, you may want to visit your doctor for specific advice on determining whether or not you suffer sleep apnea, and what to do about it if so.

Oldtora
 

Then you must remember the Banyan Tree at the end of the runway at Kona Village? I've had Leaves in the wheel wells flying out of that spot. One guy put a 182 in the bay after hitting that tree. It's in 80 ' of water and fun to dive on. I had a bud later fly Bank Paper up and down the Sac. Valley in the 402. "TurboSystem" they was. Sleepy after Eating? At my age I feel sleepy after everything.

Quite easily actually. Imagine 8 very short very busy sectors a day x 18 days a month = cumulative fatigue. Up very early with massive doses of caffeine. About mid-morning finally have a chance to inhale a 3 minute "breakfast".
Caffeine now wearing off and food finally in the stomach. Top of climb and autopilot on and warm sun shining in cockpit.
Been there done that. Both of us. More than once.

A couple of related questions.....

- Does anyone remember the South American airliner that overshoot Brazil (1980's)? My vague recollection of the story was that the pilots were woken by the cabin crew asking why the ETA had passed and they hadn't landed. Horrifically they were over the ocean with not enough fuel to make landfall?
I never read anything about this pesonally but was told that it was the catalyst for the cabin crew's 20 min check of the flight deck? In the version I was told I think it was a VARIG aircraft.

- Another second hand story which should be easier to confirm....some long haul operators have an SOP for controlled napping. It involves taking turns to sleep whilst a member of the cabin crew (hopefully opposite sex) keeps the other crew member aroused. Is this true?

In a mailing I received from AVweb today it commented that WFAA-TV, a Dallas TV station, reported in 2006 that Mesa's mainland operational schedules were so tight that some pilots camped in their aircraft. (my bolding) Fatigue? Not possible :ugh: :oh: ALPA has filed a grievance with the airline on the pilots' behalf.

Here's that report:
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/Vi...9169&catId=104

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw....1b6739d3.html

Hmmm.

Couldn't this add to the problem? I often fall asleep as a result of having become too aroused....:eek:

As an update on this, seems the pilots have admitted falling asleep and having tried to cover it up:

Go! pilots admit dozing in flight - News - Starbulletin.com